Dr. Harold McGee: A Stanford-affiliated, world-renowned author on the science and chemistry of food and cooking, best known for 'On Food and Cooking.' Originally trained in astronomy at Caltech and later in literature (a Keats scholar) before spending four decades writing about food science.
What this episode covers
Andrew Huberman and Harold McGee explore the chemistry behind why food tastes the way it does and how to make almost anything taste better. They cover how heat breaks macromolecules into small, detectable flavor molecules (the Maillard reactions), the discovery and nature of umami, and how taste thresholds are malleable and trainable. The conversation ranges across coffee and tea brewing chemistry, meal sequencing, super-tasters, the cilantro/soap divide, cheese aging and Parmesan crystals, fermentation traditions, why beans cause gas, and whether expensive wine is truly better. McGee also shares his unusual path from astronomy to literature to food science.
Recommended on this episode
AeroPress
Alan Adler / Aerobie
“We have this colleague of ours at Stanford, the Adler, who built the AeroPress, which I've used for years.”— Andrew Huberman
To Autumn
John Keats
“to read a poem like "To Autumn," which is the poem that I would suggest people read, just adds a dimension of appreciation to that poem.”— Harold McGee
The guest's own work
On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen
Harold McGee
“We'll put links to your books that explore the chemistry of food and other aspects.”— Andrew Huberman
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Neurogastronomy / books on the neuroscience of flavor
Gordon Shepherd
“There are a couple of wonderful books by a neurobiologist named Gordon Shepherd on exactly these subjects.”— Harold McGee
Big reveals from this episode
- McGee recounts that testing the old 'use a copper bowl to whip egg whites' cook's tale was career-changing, teaching him to test everything.
- When he started writing in the '70s, no one in the West believed umami existed except the Japanese scientists who discovered it.
- Umami was only accepted in the West after the glutamate receptor was discovered in the early 2000s.
- On blind tastings, McGee notes experts have been fooled by red wines vs. white wines dyed red, arguing expectation drives perception.
- He frames whether one wine is 'better' than another as a judgment shaped by knowledge, not an absolute property.
- Both agree the one thing vegans, vegetarians, omnivores and carnivores all share is that fewer processed foods is better.
- McGee's whole food-science career began with a dinner-table question about why beans give you gas.
- Reveals Keats started life as a medical student who attended his mother and brother as they died of TB, shaping his poetry.
Worth remembering
- Copper inhibits the breakdown of sucrose into glucose and fructose, which is why French cooks use copper for jams and preserves.
- The Maillard reactions can generate sugars and aromatic 'conjugates' from proteins and fats even when no sugar was present to start.
- Enzymes in your mouth keep releasing new flavors from food seconds after you chew, so eating slowly yields a richer experience.
- Taste is highly malleable; Monell Chemical Senses Center studies showed salt preferences can be reset in a couple of months.
- A typical cup of coffee extracts only about 20% of the bean's weight; longer/hotter brewing pulls out larger, more bitter and astringent molecules.
- Capsaicin in hot peppers is an aversive molecule aimed at mammals; birds don't respond to it, which helps the plant disperse seeds.
- Salt and bitterness are opposing sensations, so a pinch of salt reduces bitterness in coffee, beer or grapefruit without adding sugar.
- The crunchy crystals in aged Parmesan are crystallized tyrosine and other amino acids, a sign of authentic long aging.
- Beans cause gas because they contain oligosaccharides humans can't digest; NASA-funded research found soaking and boiling-off the water removes them.
- People who find cilantro soapy detect aroma molecules also found in soaps, a divergence tied to culture and biology (studied via twins at Monell).