The guest
Dr. Michael Breus: A clinical psychologist and sleep specialist of 26 years known as 'The Sleep Doctor.' He is one of only 168 people to pass the medical sleep boards without attending medical school, popularized the chronotype framework, and claims to have discovered a fourth chronotype (the dolphin).
What this episode covers
Breus explains the two systems that govern sleep (sleep drive driven by adenosine, and sleep rhythm driven by your circadian clock) and how knowing your genetic chronotype (lion, bear, wolf, dolphin) lets you time activities like work, coffee, alcohol, and sex. He gives a step-by-step protocol for what to do when you wake between 1-3AM (don't pee, don't check your phone, use 4-7-8 breathing) and argues the wake-up time matters far more than bedtime. He covers sleep apnea and insomnia in depth, debunks melatonin overuse (especially in children), and walks through supplements, sleep trackers, pillows, bedroom temperature, and dream therapy. Throughout he stresses sleep as the upstream cause of mood, relationships, and health.
Recommended on this episode
ProductRecommended
Timeshifter
Timeshifter
“one of my favorites”
“Time Shifter is one of my favorites. I've been using it literally for 15 years. And it solves jet lag, bro.”— Dr. Michael Breus
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Magtein Magnesium L-Threonate (Magnesium 308)
Magceutics / Magtein
“The ones I like”
“there's one called magnesium 308, which is made by a company called Magen. they actually have a published research study in the journals.”— Dr. Michael Breus
ProductRecommended
Upgraded Formulas Magnesium
Upgraded Formulas
“his magnesium really made people sleep better”
“There's also another company called Upgraded Formulas. They make a magnesium. His magnesium really made people sleep better.”— Dr. Michael Breus
ProductRecommended
Coop Pillow
Coop Home Goods
“this is my favorite”
“this is by a company called Coupe. probably the best pillow out. if I had my choice, I'd pick this one because this is my favorite.”— Dr. Michael Breus
ProductRecommended
Oura Ring
Oura
“probably does the best job”
“I think the aura ring probably does the best job. I really don't think they've gotten there quite yet because depth of sleep is based on brain waves.”— Dr. Michael Breus
The guest's own work
ProductBy the guest
Home Sleep Test (HST)
Dr. Michael Breus / SleepDoctor.com
“we do have that test on my website. We sell it to people so that way we can test them. And how much does it cost? $189.”— Dr. Michael Breus
ProductBy the guest
Orion Sleep System
Orion
“this is a product. It's called an Orion sleep system, and it's a topper that you're lying on top of. I am affiliated with these guys. I am their chief sleep officer.”— Dr. Michael Breus
BookBy the guestISBN verified
The Power of When
Dr. Michael Breus
“two great books here in front of me. The power of when, discover your chronotype, and the best time to eat, lunch, ask for a raise, have sex.”— Steven Bartlett
BookBy the guestISBN verified
Sleep, Drink, Breathe
Dr. Michael Breus
“in my most recent book, Sleep, Drink, Breathe, I talk a lot about breath work and what is it and how does it work for you.”— Dr. Michael Breus
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
ProductReferenced
Muse Headband
Muse
“I was told about this tool called a Muse headband. We have one right here. This is my personal Muse. I actually brought it from home.”— Dr. Michael Breus
ProductReferenced
Next Sense Earbuds
Next Sense
“there's a new company out called Next Sense. they have developed an earbud that actually measures your brain waves while you are sleeping.”— Dr. Michael Breus
ProductReferenced
Eight Sleep
Eight Sleep
“You mentioned eight that's a company that has a topper type of thing that can change the temperature underneath the covers.”— Steven Bartlett
Big reveals from this episode
- The 'nappa latte' trick: drink black coffee fast, then take a 25-minute nap, and caffeine blocks adenosine just as you wake, good for four hours.
- Everyone on Earth wakes between 1-3AM as core body temperature rebounds; most just roll over, insomniacs get stuck.
- Breus discloses he personally has sleep apnea and stops breathing about 26 times an hour, and wears a CPAP machine every night.
- His single biggest sleep tip: wake up at the same time seven days a week, the bedtime barely matters.
- Melatonin is a sleep regulator, not a sleep initiator, and should never be given to children except those on the autism spectrum.
- He reveals he is the paid 'chief sleep officer' for the Orion sleep system, a job title he made up himself.
- He recounts using dream therapy to cure a rape survivor's recurring nightmare by uncovering the 'lion' represented her uncle who saved her.
Worth remembering
- Your chronotype is genetic, set by a single nucleotide polymorphism in the PER3 region of your genome.
- The best time for sex is the morning, not 10:30PM, because that's when testosterone, cortisol and adrenaline are high and melatonin is low.
- Don't drink caffeine for the first 90 minutes awake, adrenaline and cortisol are already maxed, so coffee is like 'weak tea added to cocaine.'
- A University of Minnesota study found delaying school start by one hour raised students a full letter grade.
- Alcohol destroys stage 3-4 deep sleep, when the glymphatic system clears the proteins linked to Alzheimer's.
- Roughly 936 million to 1 billion adults worldwide have obstructive sleep apnea, with 80-90% undiagnosed.
- A 2024 analysis found melatonin gummies ranged from 0% to 667% of the labeled dose, some contained CBD or none at all.
- Magnesium for sleep comes from the banana peel, not the fruit; Breus steeps a whole banana to make 'banana tea.'
- The Timeshifter jet-lag app's lighting algorithm originated on the International Space Station and was later used by F1's Lewis Hamilton.
- You need a resting heart rate of 60 or below to fall asleep, which is why a late cookie spiked Bartlett's heart rate to 75-80 in bed.
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