Dr. Chris Palmer: A psychiatrist and researcher at Harvard University and McLean Hospital who pioneers 'metabolic psychiatry', using metabolic and mitochondrial health to treat psychiatric disorders. Author of the book Brain Energy.
What this episode covers
Huberman and Palmer argue that metabolic health is fundamentally about mitochondrial health, and that mitochondria do far more than make ATP, they regulate neurotransmitters, hormones, the stress response, inflammation, and epigenetics. Palmer frames depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and autism as conditions tied to disrupted mitochondrial function rather than simple neurotransmitter imbalances. They walk through lifestyle pillars (diet, exercise, sleep, substance use, stress, relationships) plus the ketogenic diet, fasting, and supplements like creatine, methylene blue, and urolithin A. The conversation also tackles ultra-processed foods, B12/folate/iron deficiencies, the corruption of public health organizations, and a careful, data-driven discussion of vaccines, inflammation, and autism risk.
The guest's own work
Brain Energy
Chris Palmer
“his absolutely spectacular book Brain energy please see the show note captions”— Andrew Huberman
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Creatine
(generic supplement)
“we do have randomized controlled trial data with creatine showing that it can improve symptoms of made major depression it can augment anti-depressants”— Chris Palmer
Methylene Blue
(generic compound)
“methylene blue fascinatingly is primarily exclusively a mitochondrial agent so it is an electron acceptor and donor”— Chris Palmer
Urolithin A (Mitopure)
Timeline
“there's a company timeline that puts out this product and to their credit they have actually done some pretty well-designed robust randomized controlled Trials of urethan a”— Chris Palmer
Nicotine Gum
(generic)
“lately I've started uh chewing half of a piece of nicotine gum a few times a week um so 2 milligrams to four milligrams which is very low dose”— Andrew Huberman
ProLon Fasting Mimicking Diet
Walter Longo / ProLon
“he has a proprietary product called prolon you can get the benefits by just not eating anything or by eating 600 calories a day I mean you don't need to buy that proprietary product”— Chris Palmer
SS-31 Mitochondrial Peptide
(research peptide)
“I decide to experiment with a peptide that is uh sr31 which is specifically to improve mitochondrial function”— Andrew Huberman
The Emperor of All Maladies
Siddhartha Mukherjee
“you read like The what is it the Emperor of all maladies about cancer and you just realize like we're we're stumbling forward and making miraculous progress”— Andrew Huberman
Big reveals from this episode
- Palmer calls the serotonin-deficiency theory of depression 'ridiculously reductionistic' and says we know with certainty it is not true.
- Counterintuitively states mental disorders are diseases of aging, the highest rate of antidepressant prescriptions is in people 65 and older.
- Slams the American Heart Association for lobbying against a Texas bill restricting food-stamp spending on junk food, calling its position 'an absolute abject lie.'
- Reveals the NIH Office of Nutritional Research has an annual budget of just $1.3 million, and a proposed increase to $13 million was killed by food-industry lobbyists.
- Discusses a vaccine-injury lawsuit won by a child with a pre-existing mitochondrial disorder, where the court ruled the vaccine contributed to her neurodevelopmental condition.
- Cites a meta-analysis of 3 million people: women with obesity have double the risk of an autistic child, and obesity plus diabetes quadruples the risk.
- States only 7% of Americans are metabolically healthy across all five biomarkers of metabolic syndrome.
- Reveals he has over 5,300 people on the waiting list for his planned metabolic-psychiatry practice.
Worth remembering
- The first antidepressant (an MAO inhibitor) was discovered by accident as a tuberculosis treatment that lifted patients' moods.
- Alcohol's liver and brain damage was traced in the 1960s to mitochondrial toxicity from the metabolite acetaldehyde.
- The ketogenic diet is a 100-year-old epilepsy treatment that is six times more likely to produce seizure freedom than trying another medication in treatment-resistant cases.
- Fecal transplants from epileptic children on a ketogenic diet reduced seizures in mice even though the mice weren't on the diet.
- Palmer emphasizes that the ketogenic diet works by mimicking the fasting state, shifting metabolism and gene expression.
- A JAMA study found 40% of US females aged 12 to 21 are iron deficient, which can drive depression and anxiety even in thin, healthy-looking girls.
- In India, where much of the population is vegetarian or vegan, roughly 50% are B12 deficient.
- Researchers identified a new autoimmune form of central B12 deficiency targeting the CD320 protein; about 6% of healthy controls and ~50% of people with an MS-like condition carry the antibody.
- In a study of over 300,000 people, 58% of heavy ultra-processed-food eaters had poor mental health versus 18% of those who rarely ate it.
- Inflammation from infection (like the flu) produces real neuropsychiatric symptoms, fatigue, loss of libido, withdrawal, via impaired mitochondrial function.