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Tim Ferriss · 2025-11-12

KneesOverToesGuy — Workouts That Produce Wild Results and Lessons from Charles Poliquin

KneesOverToesGuy Ben Patrick tells Tim Ferriss how backward sleds, deep squats, and Charles Poliquin's lessons fixed his knees.

KneesOverToesGuy — Workouts That Produce Wild Results and Lessons from Charles Poliquin
The guest

Ben Patrick: Known as 'KneesOverToesGuy,' a coach and founder of ATG who overcame chronic knee pain and multiple surgeries to build a minimalist knee-training and joint-health system based on training the knees-over-toes position.

What this episode covers

Ben Patrick recounts going from a stiff teenager nicknamed 'old man' with chronic knee pain and a partial kneecap replacement, quad tendon reattachment, and meniscus transplant, to dunking pain-free for over a decade. The turning point was discovering Charles Poliquin's work, which contradicted the mainstream 'don't let your knees go over your toes' rule and led him to backward sled dragging, full-range deep squats, and front-foot-elevated split squats. He explains his three core training principles, his minimalist twice-a-week program, and the histories behind tools like the sled (traced to Westside Barbell and Finnish tree-draggers) and the tibialis 'tib bar' (from Mr. Universe Bob Gajda's 'DARD' device). The back half turns to Tim's philosophy on integrity, audience capture, and why he walked away from a potentially nine-figure supplement business to protect his audience's trust.

Recommended on this episode

ProductRecommended

Wrist Bar

ATG

“I told you that I really liked your wrist bar”
“we were chatting a bit before recording about some of your different pieces of equipment and I told you that I really liked your wrist bar.”— Tim Ferriss
ProductRecommended

Torque Sleds

Torque Fitness

“the sleds I really like, like the Torque sleds, which I own. I love them”
“Particularly the sleds I really like, like the Torque sleds, which I own. I love them.”— Tim Ferriss

The guest's own work

ProductBy the guest

Tib Bar

ATG

“I think tib bar and now it's a pretty common device. Like you can even go on Amazon and buy tip bars.”— Ben Patrick
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The 4-Hour Workweek

Tim Ferriss

“I first met Charles because he reached out to me after reading the 4-hour work week, my first book, and he had applied a lot of it to his business”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The 4-Hour Body

Tim Ferriss

“And then we connected and Charles ended up in the 4-hour body. He introduced me to myofascial release and active release technique.”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Tools of Titans

Tim Ferriss

“things that you can do to stabilize everything else in effect that I did put some of in Tools of Titans with say some of Peter Tia's exercises”— Tim Ferriss

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

ProductReferenced

Prowler

Elite FTS

“One of Louis Simmons disciples, Dave Tate, who made the if you've heard of Elite FTS, they made the Prowler style sled.”— Ben Patrick
ProductReferenced

DARD (Dynamic Axial Resistance Device)

Bob Gajda

“And he invented this device that he called a dard. D A R D. I think it was dynamic axi resistance device.”— Ben Patrick
ProductReferenced

Resisted Treadmill

ATG

“people can look at the resisted treadmill that you have also through ATG, how much does that cost? 600.”— Tim Ferriss

Big reveals from this episode

  • By age 18 Ben had a partial kneecap replacement, quad tendon reattachment, and meniscus transplant, then secretly stayed on painkillers afterward without his parents or girlfriend knowing.
  • The first thing that let Ben get off painkillers was dragging a sled backwards, with every step putting his knee over his toes, getting circulation and strength without pain.
  • Ben deliberately got off painkillers after just the first week of backward sled work, even though not all his pain was gone.
  • Charles Poliquin learned the backward sled idea by tracing it to Westside Barbell's Louie Simmons, who invented dragging weight after learning Finnish powerlifters' secret was a day job dragging trees.
  • The tibialis 'tib bar' originated from Mr. Universe Bob Gajda, who quit bodybuilding when steroid money arrived and invented a device he called the 'DARD' (Dynamic Axial Resistance Device).
  • Tim revealed he could have made tens of millions, maybe over $100 million, launching a supplement brand off the 4-Hour Body, but declined it to protect his audience's trust.
  • Tim chose not to do four or five follow-up crypto episodes after a massively successful one, to avoid 'audience capture' and alienating listeners not interested in crypto.

Worth remembering

  • Ben coached the sled over 100,000 times across thousands of group sessions and says no one was ever hurt doing it.
  • To demonstrate sled safety, Ben put 1,000 pounds on a sled and had his 71-year-old mother try to drag it backwards; she couldn't budge it but was completely fine.
  • Ben's 71-year-old mother sprints and credits the front-foot-elevated split squat with fixing her deteriorating hip, after eight years of training.
  • At age 34, Ben has been dunking for over a decade with no knee problems, despite being unable to grab the rim throughout his high school career.
  • Tim cites Jerzy Gregorek, a near-70 masters Olympic weightlifter who can do an ass-to-heels snatch standing on a balance board, and credits one-rep-per-minute light overhead squats for restoring his own ankle mobility.
  • The 4-Hour Body sold so many of ATG's wrist bars after Tim featured it in his '5-Bullet Friday' newsletter (2M+ subscribers) that staff investigated the spike; made-in-America just-in-time production let them fulfill orders without over-ordering.
  • Tim says if updating the 4-Hour Body he'd add chapters on sled work, intermittent fasting, hip/glute-medius work, and zone 2 training.
  • Arnold Schwarzenegger was so embarrassed by his lower-leg development that some early posing photos show him standing in water up to his knees to hide his calves.
  • Ben works out only twice a week for about 45 minutes, plays basketball once a week, and raises toddlers; his whole regimen is built on one-to-two work sets per exercise.
  • Tim cites the Barry Ross protocol (used with sprinter Allyson Felix) of deadlifts to the knee, 2-3 sets of 2-3 reps with long rests, as a minimalist route one reader used to reach a 475 lb deadlift.