Seth Godin and Dr. Sue Johnson - The Tim Ferriss Show

This 'super combo' episode, marking the podcast's 10th anniversary and over a billion downloads, pairs two of Tim's favorite past guests. Seth Godin discusses his rules for saying yes or no, why he failed more than he succeeded by design, writing a daily blog, money as a story, and teaching kids to lead and solve interesting problems instead of being obedient cogs. Dr. Sue Johnson then walks through the peer-reviewed science behind EFT, the 'Hold Me Tight' bonding conversation, and how attachment theory reveals humans are wired for connection from cradle to grave. She uses Argentine Tango as an extended metaphor for emotional attunement and addresses sleep training, sexuality, trauma, and the toxicity of emotional isolation. The conversation is deeply personal, with Tim sharing his own early-childhood trauma and lifelong sense of isolation.

• Seth Godin caps speaking engagements at 30 a year and charges Los Angeles three times the price of New York: 'if you don't think that's fair then don't make me go to Los Angeles.'
  00:09:53
• Godin says the number of his failures dramatically exceeds most people's and he is 'more proud of the failures than the successes.'
  00:15:35
• Godin turned down being head of marketing at a Bill Gross venture with Steven Spielberg on the board and a billion dollars in stock options on the table because saying yes would mean 'I've decided what I do for the rest of my life.'
  00:31:40
• Dr. Sue Johnson says EFT lets them change not just marital satisfaction but the security of the bond: 'we've cracked the code of love' though the New York Times doesn't agree.
  00:46:15
• In a brain-scan study with neuroscientist Jim Coan, women anticipating ankle shocks showed high alarm in the MRI before therapy; after EFT, when their partner held their hand, their brains stayed completely calm like a resting brain.
  00:51:26
• Johnson states a strong bias against sleep training: 'your child does not calm down and learn to rely on itself, your child numbs out' and learns no one will come when it cries.
  01:21:27
• Johnson cites research (Laumann, University of Chicago) that the people who have the best, most frequent, most thrilling sex are those in safe long-term relationships, challenging the cliche that passion has a 'best before date.'
  02:13:23
• Johnson reveals her parents loved each other but fought continually, and that her father survived World War II but was destroyed by his failed marriage, shaping her life's work.
  02:28:33

• The episode celebrates the Tim Ferriss Show's 10th anniversary and passing one billion downloads across more than 700 episodes.
  00:08:18
• Godin and Chip Conley brainstormed more than 5,000 business ideas over the first year of business school, meeting every Tuesday night in the anthropology department.
  00:17:39
• Godin advised a rejected toy designer (his friend Lynn) to pivot into the book business, where she sold more than five million decks of cards within months.
  00:21:46
• Godin's most-pointed-to blog post is 'First, Ten': tell, show, and share with ten people who already trust you; if they don't spread it, it isn't good enough.
  00:26:59
• Dr. Johnson is designing a 16-hour relationship program with the Heart Institute in Ottawa because patients with good partner relationships are less likely to have a second heart attack.
  00:43:40
• EFT shows roughly a 73 to 86 percent success rate with distressed couples in studies, with results holding at three-year follow-up.
  00:45:12
• The scales Johnson uses include the Dyadic Adjustment Scale, the Beck Depression Inventory, and the Experiences in Close Relationships scale for attachment.
  00:49:21
• Johnson cites Winston Churchill as a fascinating example: a man with a horrible, neglectful childhood who built and relied on a secure bond with his wife throughout his life.
  01:48:41
• Johnson explains research (citing Gillath, Basson, and Chivers) showing women can be physiologically aroused yet not report it, because the prefrontal cortex first checks the safety of the relationship.
  02:09:43
• The Hold Me Tight Online program is being used by the US and Canadian militaries, and British Columbia's government bought copies for first responders with struggling relationships.
  02:24:26