Josh Waitzkin: Former chess prodigy (subject of the book and film 'Searching for Bobby Fischer'), International Master, and Tai Chi Push Hands and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world champion. Author of 'The Art of Learning' and now an elite performance coach for investors, athletes (the Boston Celtics), and scientists.
What this episode covers
Andrew Huberman talks with Josh Waitzkin about the universal principles of learning distilled from his journeys through chess, martial arts, and foiling. They explore why devastating losses catalyze the biggest growth, how to manage arousal states and 'frame rate' to perform under pressure, and Waitzkin's 'most important question' (MIQ) process for opening the channel between conscious and unconscious mind. The conversation digs into ego as dynamic-versus-static quality, the passage from 'preconscious' to 'postconscious' performance, and the danger of replicating past success rather than rediscovering it. Waitzkin also shares his near-fatal drowning, his daily training lifestyle in Costa Rica, and his new AI-plus-science venture, Lila Sciences, aimed at humanity's biggest challenges.
The guest's own work
The Art of Learning
Josh Waitzkin
“to find a link to his book The Art of learning which by the way I highly recommend please see the show note captions”— Andrew Huberman
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Searching for Bobby Fischer
Steven Zaillian
“I saw the search for Bobby Fischer and I learned about the real human that was about you”— Andrew Huberman
Hilary and Jackie
Anand Tucker
“the musician who if you've ever seen the movie Hillary and Jackie was one of the world's most accomplished uh piano players at a very young age”— Josh Waitzkin
The Hangover
Todd Phillips
“it ironically it was The Hangover it was him pretending to have a you know act as an actor that kind of brought him back”— Andrew Huberman
Hemingway on Writing
Ernest Hemingway
“Hemingway on writing is another book of that nature which takes all of Hemingways from from his from his books from his letters”— Josh Waitzkin
The Lessons of History
Will and Ariel Durant
“lessons of History which is the short compilation of Will and Ariel Durant um two of the greatest historians”— Josh Waitzkin
Daily Rituals
Mason Currey
“that old book that Tim actually produced the audio book um daily rituals... one of the best things about daily rituals is how few patterns there are through them”— Josh Waitzkin
The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life
Boyd Varty
“in his his book lion tracker's Guide to Life he has this gorgeous quote um which is the words of a of a master tracker”— Josh Waitzkin
Team of Teams
Stanley McChrystal, Chris Fussell, et al.
“a dear friend um Chris Fussell who is a brilliant man who um he wrote team of teams in one Mission he was a elite Navy SEAL”— Josh Waitzkin
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
Robert Pirsig
“you could think about Robert PK's work and and there Motorcycle Maintenance and lla around Dynamic quality versus static quality”— Josh Waitzkin
Lila: An Inquiry into Morals
Robert Pirsig
“you could think about Robert PK's work and and there Motorcycle Maintenance and lla around Dynamic quality versus static quality”— Josh Waitzkin
Big reveals from this episode
- Waitzkin has never been on social media in any form, calling it a deliberate lifelong choice.
- Recounts nearly dying, unconscious 25 minutes after drowning at the bottom of the NYU pool for four and a half minutes during hypoxic breath work.
- Says losing the Under-18 World Chess Championship final at 17 was the most devastating loss of his chess life, yet seeded the empty-space principle that won him a martial arts world title years later.
- Reveals he is writing a new book, tentatively titled 'The Art of Training,' his first since 'The Art of Learning.'
- Marcelo Garcia, after dominating ADCC, shed his entire winning repertoire the very next Monday rather than defend it, Waitzkin's model of 'dynamic quality.'
- Announces Lila Sciences, an AI 'science factory' venture (with Geoff von Maltzahn and Chris Fussell) building scientific super-intelligence, prioritizing safety first.
- Childhood chess friend Demis Hassabis (DeepMind) gave Waitzkin a front-row seat to AI overtaking human chess; AI engines now exceed 3,800 ELO versus ~2,900 for the best humans.
Worth remembering
- Through experimentation Waitzkin found his personal sweet spot for chess study was about 4.5 hours a day at maximum intensity, with the rest of the day spent protecting those hours.
- In high-arousal states the visual aperture shrinks and we 'slice time' at a higher frame rate; relaxing widens the aperture, and viewing a horizon automatically triggers relaxation.
- A simple way to cut chess blunders: decide your move, write it down, then play it, the act of notating forces a resurfacing that catches errors.
- The MIQ process: end the workday by posing your most important question at peak intensity, release it overnight, and return to it first thing in the morning before any input.
- Carbon dioxide, not low oxygen, is what triggers the urge to breathe, flushing CO2 via hyperventilation is what makes shallow-water blackout deadly.
- Waitzkin doesn't time cold plunges; he counts 'walls of adrenaline,' using cold water to train living on the other side of pain.
- He rejects the 'prodigy' label entirely, saying he competed only against equal-or-stronger players from age six and never relied on talent.
- Many of his team members report their biggest creative breakthroughs happen in the shower, likely because somatic immersion plus white noise frees the unconscious mind.
- Yuri Razuvaev's principle 'you can learn Karpov through Kasparov', take on weaknesses through the lens of your strengths.