Lori Gottlieb: Psychotherapist and best-selling author of "Maybe You Should Talk to Someone," widely regarded as one of the world's leading experts on relationships. She also writes the "Ask the Therapist" advice column (formerly at The Atlantic, now The New York Times).
What this episode covers
Andrew Huberman and Lori Gottlieb explore how our feelings act as a compass for choosing partners, and why people are drawn to what's familiar rather than what's healthy. Gottlieb explains how unprocessed childhood wounds create radar for the wrong partners, why excitement is often mislabeled volatility, and how calm and contentment are the real markers of a good relationship. They dig into communication, self- vs. co-regulation, the manipulation of crying and silent treatment, projective identification, and how texting and social media erode the space needed to respond rather than react. The conversation also covers death awareness as a path to vitality, the maximizer vs. satisficer trap in dating apps, grief as moving forward rather than moving on, and the modern confusion young men and women face around courtship.
Recommended on this episode
The Denial of Death
Ernest Becker
“I'm reading Erns Becker's the denial of death highly recommend it to everyone a Pulitzer after all”— Andrew Huberman
High Fidelity
Nick Hornby
“There's a great line in that movie High Fidelity based on the Nick Hornby novel, which I also highly recommend”— Andrew Huberman
The guest's own work
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone
Lori Gottlieb
“I wrote this book called Maybe You Should Talk to Someone and it's the stories of it's my story going to therapy and then it's the story of these four other patients”— Lori Gottlieb
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone: The Workbook
Lori Gottlieb
“I created basically a workbook that's a companion to maybe you should talk to someone. And it's it's I really focused on stories”— Lori Gottlieb
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
The Creative Act: A Way of Being
Rick Rubin
“Rick Rubin talked a little bit about this in his book the creative act like we need to be on the front end of the of the vehicle”— Andrew Huberman
The Paradox of Choice
Barry Schwartz
“there's a phenomenon that Barry Schwarz talks about in his book, The Paradox of Choice. And it's the idea that the more choice we have, the less happy we are.”— Lori Gottlieb
Big reveals from this episode
- "We marry our unfinished business", people unconsciously seek partners who resemble the parent who hurt them, even when consciously choosing the opposite.
- Gottlieb upends dating advice: an immediate spark often misleads, and a merely "good enough" first date is worth a second one.
- Huberman's contrarian reframe vs. Becker: "I don't think we're afraid of death. I think we're afraid of not having lived."
- "The opposite of depression isn't happiness, it's vitality", which comes from accepting our limited time.
- A colleague's line: mindless internet scrolling is "the most effective non-prescription painkiller out there," and numbness is too many feelings, not none.
- Huberman: "I refuse to argue over text", important relationship conversations should never happen by text.
- Gottlieb: the silent treatment is "incredibly aggressive and hostile," and crying can be a manipulation that shuts down communication.
- Huberman's hard personal rule: "No drama. Just none," and accepting he'll lose people because of it.
- The "help-rejecting complainer", a person who is always the victim and rejects every solution offered.
Worth remembering
- "Cherophobia" is the fear of joy, people sabotage good things because they fear the other shoe will drop.
- A 20-year longitudinal study showed couples rewrite their origin stories: happy couples "remember" chemistry that wasn't there at the time, unhappy ones erase it.
- "Idiot compassion" (friends who just validate you) vs. "wise compassion", "if a fight breaks out in every bar you go to, maybe it's you."
- Guilt is healthy ("you're not a sociopath") while shame is corrosive, separate what you did from who you are.
- The Gottmans' "bank of goodwill": you need five positive deposits for every one withdrawal in a relationship.
- Calibrate your inner "thermostat", people raised in chaos can't tell when a situation is at a dangerous 100 degrees vs. a normal 72.
- Paradox of choice: dating apps turn everyone into maximizers; satisficers who pick a good-enough option end up happier.
- Gottlieb's exercise: list everything that makes YOU hard to date, one item for each trait you demand in a partner.
- Relationships are like cement, raise issues while it's still wet (early), because once dry they're far harder to change.
- "When you're making a decision, choose the bigger life", Gottlieb's rule for cutting through indecision.