The guest
Chris Sacca: Billionaire venture capitalist, early backer of Twitter and Uber, founder of climate fund Lower Carbon Capital, and former Shark Tank investor.
What this episode covers
In a follow-up to their first conversation a decade earlier, Chris Sacca tells Tim Ferriss how growing up working-class in Lockport, New York shaped his hustle and his empathy for de-industrialized America. He explains his investing and life philosophy around saying no, knowing the true cost of yes, and refusing purity tests that demand people be perfect. Much of the talk centers on his worry that AI will obliterate most white-collar work in single-digit years and that over-protected, phone-addicted young people have lost the resourcefulness, storytelling, and risk-taking that real life teaches. He pitches a coming backlash toward analog, in-person community and human imperfection, and walks through Lower Carbon Capital's for-profit climate bets in fusion, fire management, and clean chemicals. The episode closes with raucous stories of his and Tim's misspent youth, the theme of his new project 'No Permanent Record,' and a famous dinner-party moment where Tim torched a romantic setup with brutal honesty.
Recommended on this episode
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Psychology of Money
Morgan Housel
“great book”
“you always ask people their favorite books Etc like one is Morgan's the psychology of money oh Morgan hle yeah great book”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Anxious Generation
Jonathan Haidt
“informed me more about our generation as well as how to work with other people”
“ready book list yeah you didn't ask me well I did for your syllabus but you dodged and gave me poetry anxious generation and coddling of American mind”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Coddling of the American Mind
Jonathan Haidt
“informed me more about our generation as well as how to work with other people”
“anxious generation and coddling of American mind and generations by Jee twangy who works with Jonathan height informed me more about our generation”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommended
Generations
Jean Twenge
“informed me more about our generation as well as how to work with other people There's No Agenda to that book but it's powerful”
“generations by Jee twangy who works with Jonathan height informed me more about our generation as well as how to work with other people”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Coming Wave
Mustafa Suleyman
“does the most even-handed job of assessing the future of AI particularly by someone in the business end”
“the coming Wave by Suliman I think does the most even-handed job of assessing the future of AI particularly by someone in the business end”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The End of the World Is Just the Beginning
Peter Zeihan
“I think it's just provocative”
“the world is just the beginning do you know that guy no Peter he's a Maniac I think it's just provocative”— Chris Sacca
MediaRecommended
Van Neistat's book report on The Fourth Turning
Van Neistat
“it's just thought-provoking”
“I love van neistat's book report on the fourth turning it's just thought-provoking”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Homegrown
Jeffrey Toobin
“that book explains what happens when the Factory closes down and people become radicalized and I encourage people to read it”
“homegrown a book by Jeffrey tubin about Tim McVey is I think a Canarian a Coline book”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Stolen Focus
Johann Hari
“just amazing I think it's like the best like digital detox”
“stolen focus by Jonathan Harari you know that one just amazing I think it's like the best like digital detox”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Meditations for Mortals
Oliver Burkeman
“is a great one... so good yeah he's great”
“meditation for Mortals is a great one oh Oliver burkman yeah so good yeah he's great”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Rejection
Tony Tulathimutte
“the best piece of fiction I've read recently... it's amazing”
“the best piece of fiction I've read recently is rejection by Tony can't say his last name it's amazing”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Every
Dave Eggers
“the every is great fiction... seems to be increasingly prophetic right now”
“the every is great fiction... the every I love Edgars but the every seems to be increasingly prophetic right now”— Chris Sacca
MediaRecommended
Greenlights (audiobook)
Matthew McConaughey
“you can't read it you got to listen to it”
“did you listen to to mcc's autobiography green lights... Matthew MC's audio book you can't read it you got to listen to it”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Lost Connections
Johann Hari
“the one I read in full which I thought was great... very well done”
“lost connections is the one I read in full which I thought was great that's about isolation loneliness and things to do about it”— Tim Ferriss
MediaRecommended
Moonbound
Robin Sloan
“Robin Sloan's fiction moonbound and penumbra are great”
“Robin Sloan's fiction moonbound and penumbra are great”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore
Robin Sloan
“Robin Sloan's fiction moonbound and penumbra are great”
“Robin Sloan's fiction moonbound and penumbra are great”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Wool (Silo series)
Hugh Howey
“love it I think it's great I think it's prophetic and amazing”
“I even read the wool series after watching the first season of Silo love it I think it's great I think it's prophetic and amazing”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Pirates! In an Adventure with Communists
Gideon Defoe
“those books are so good you laugh at them even as you read them to children”
“it's the Pirates series The Pirates in an adventure with Communists the Pirates in adventure with Darwin like those books are so good”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Pirates! In an Adventure with Scientists (with Darwin)
Gideon Defoe
“those books are so good you laugh at them even as you read them to children”
“the Pirates in adventure with Darwin like those books are so good you laugh at them even as you read them to children”— Chris Sacca
ProductRecommended
Karst Stone Paper notebooks
Karst
“I highly recommend it amazing... there's no more enjoyable experience than writing on Stone”
“have you ever written on Stone paper these notebooks by kst... so carst Stone paper.com I don't own it but I highly recommend it amazing”— Chris Sacca
ProductRecommended
Dirra (Campari/Aperol substitute)
Richard Betts and Joe Maresi
“it's my favorite booze right now... an allnatural compari and appol substitute with none of the fake dies”
“doira it's my favorite booze right now what is that it's an allnatural compari and appol substitute with none of the in it”— Chris Sacca
ProductRecommended
Komos Tequila
Richard Betts and Joe Maresi
“Kos is the highest rated tequila in the land right now”
“the komos tequila guys yeah Kos is the highest rated tequila in the land right now yeah”— Chris Sacca
ProductRecommended
Mullet wigs
“my number one purchase under $100 that I stand by... they change everything... that still holds up durable mullet wigs”
“my number one purchase under $100 that I stand by... I never show up at a party without mullet wakes they change everything”— Chris Sacca
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Medium Is the Massage
Marshall McLuhan
“that book yeah... it's just beautiful foresight as to what's happening not just entertaining yourself to death”
“another book designed by the same designer Quenton fiori called the medium is the massage... it's beautiful foresight as to what's happening”— Chris Sacca
MediaRecommended
The Moth (podcast)
“I am a big fan of the moth podcast”
“I listen to the stories of Garrison Keeler like old ones... I am a big fan of the moth podcast”— Chris Sacca
ProductRecommended
Athletic (non-alcoholic beer)
Athletic Brewing
“I love those Athletics by the way”
“I love those Athletics by the way... today sucked give me an athletic and you're like I don't actually want to get up right now”— Chris Sacca
MediaRecommended
Mark Rober YouTube videos
Mark Rober
“Mark Rober makes Incredible YouTube videos”
“Mark Rober makes Incredible YouTube videos did you ever see the dartboard he made where it's impossible to miss”— Tim Ferriss
The guest's own work
BookBy the guestISBN verified
The 4-Hour Workweek
Tim Ferriss
“New York Times bestselling author of The 4our work week the 4-Hour Body the 4-Hour chef”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified
The 4-Hour Body
Tim Ferriss
“New York Times bestselling author of The 4our work week the 4-Hour Body the 4-Hour chef”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified
The 4-Hour Chef
Tim Ferriss
“New York Times bestselling author of The 4our work week the 4-Hour Body the 4-Hour chef”— Tim Ferriss
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
ProductReferenced
Zillow
Zillow
“rich founded Expedia Zillow Crystal and I look up to them as a family as parents as business people”— Chris Sacca
ProductReferenced
Expedia
Expedia
“rich founded Expedia Zillow Crystal and I look up to them as a family as parents as business people”— Chris Sacca
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Millionaire Next Door
“but a lot of that like The Millionaire Next Door that kind of stuff all of them are just like look the way you get rich is by not spending it”— Chris Sacca
MediaReferenced
The Jerk
Steve Martin
“do you remember that line in Steve Martin's The Jerk where he's walking out of the house you know he's losing his money”— Chris Sacca
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Fourth Turning
“I love van neistat's book report on the fourth turning it's just thought-provoking again”— Chris Sacca
BookReferencedISBN verified
Chasing the Scream
Johann Hari
“I misquoted just briefly Johan Harry's book Chasing the scream and lost connections”— Tim Ferriss
MediaReferenced
Class C (documentary)
“Phil Jackson voiced over a documentary about smalltown basketball in Montana I think it was called Class C”— Chris Sacca
BookReferencedISBN verified
I Seem to Be a Verb
Buckminster Fuller
“Buckminster Fuller still a huge influence on me you and I permanently ruined the market for his book I seem to be a verb”— Chris Sacca
Big reveals from this episode
- At 13-14 Sacca made his first commodities trade in live hogs using a borrowed $3,000 account and netted $171, the moment he decided he wanted to work 'upstairs' with his brain instead of $4.25-an-hour manual labor.
- Sacca says he no longer keeps idols or mentors because putting people on a pedestal imposes an impossible purity test, calling these purity tests 'a Scourge in today's society' and a core flaw of the Democratic Party.
- Inspired by Rich and Sarah Barton, Sacca and his wife Crystal wrote an 18-page family Creed codifying their values, citing data that kids of self-made-rich parents often turn out fine but their grandchildren do not.
- Sacca declares 'we are super fucked,' arguing he would not send his kids to coding class, law school, or accounting because AI is rapidly making most white-collar skills useless.
- He argues this technological shift is different from past ones because of the speed of an exponential curve, and predicts massive job losses in a year or two or three, not decades.
- Sacca's financial thesis: bet on the human, imperfect, and analog, sports, in-person community, neighbors, convening places, because that messy 'wabi-sabi' humanity is the last thing machines can't replicate.
- As a self-described capitalist climate investor, Sacca attacks environmental activists (soup-throwers, the Sierra Club, NIMBYs) for blocking controlled burns and defensible space, blaming them partly for the LA fires.
- At a dinner Sacca engineered to set Tim up with a single famous vegan actress, Tim instantly answered her 'when do you feel most present?' with 'having sex, doing psychedelics, or hunting,' torching the romance in front of 12 people.
Worth remembering
- Sacca grew up in Lockport, New York, a GM factory town near Buffalo that went from reliably union Democrat to hardcore MAGA after the plant closed and jobs shipped to Mexico.
- Sacca's wife Crystal friend-zoned him for 14 years after he first asked her out at age 18 before they got together.
- Sacca's kids attended a Swedish-style forest preschool with no math, only play, and he says his nine-year-old grew up exceptionally resilient and incapable of being bored.
- Sacca says he lost 11 pounds in 6 weeks with no lifestyle changes after quitting Twitter in November 2022, attributing it to years of 'eating the cortisol' of his mentions.
- Phil Jackson narrated a documentary called 'Class C' about small-town Montana basketball, calling it a rare place where a whole town can gather in winter that isn't a church or a bar.
- Sacca and Crystal funded research where AI synthesized a shelf-stable, distributable antivenom for snake bites that has already been successfully tested on rodents.
- Sacca says fusion is real now, atoms are being fused and net energy achieved daily, and data centers are already signing power agreements with his fusion companies for hundreds of megawatts.
- Sacca trademarked the phrase 'unfuck the planet' in many countries, noting it's hard to trademark swears (China is not a fan of f-bombs).
- Electrical utilities cause 11% of fire ignitions in California but 50% of the damage, and Lower Carbon's company Grid Ware monitors transmission towers individually to locate sparks instantly.
- Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was from Sacca's hometown, his mom was the family travel agent and his sister worked at Wendy's, and McVeigh had a photographic memory documented across 671 boxes of trial evidence.
More from Tim Ferriss
All 35816 recommended