The guest
Saagar Enjeti: DC-based political correspondent, co-host of Rising with Krystal Ball and The Realignment podcast. A self-described book nerd who has interviewed Donald Trump four times and studies power, history, and the presidency.
What this episode covers
Saagar Enjeti joins Lex Fridman for a sweeping conversation about power and the people who seek it. Drawing on biographies of Hitler, FDR, and LBJ, he argues that systems and incentives, not just individuals, shape political outcomes, and that presidents are often powerless unless they hire the right people and act with hyper-intentionality. He shares firsthand observations of Trump's charisma from interviewing him in the Oval Office, explains why American politics is now driven by cultural negative-partisanship rather than left-vs-right policy, and contends that bold, clean populist action like a $2,000 stimulus check could break the gridlock. He also explores Epstein, UFOs, and conspiracy theories before closing on the decentralized future of journalism, Antarctic exploration, and the transformation of Texas.
Recommended on this episode
BookRecommended
Hitler (two-volume biography), Volume 2
Ian Kershaw
“i think it's an amazing bio and yeah like ian kershaw along with richard evans two of my favorite authors on the third reich”
“the reason i like kirchhoff is obviously number one it's english which is actually hard right like in order to write that story”— guest
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Third Reich in Power
Richard Evans
“let me plug it by richard uh richard evans”
“third reich in power let me plug it by richard uh richard evans because that actually will tell you what was it like to live under the nazi regime”— guest
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Years of Lyndon Johnson (biography series)
Robert Caro
“these are like books i base my life on”
“i'm obsessed with these books um by robert carro the biographies of lyndon johnson he's written like 5 000 pages so far”— guest
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Power Broker
Robert Caro
“these books are up there with decline and fall of the roman empire by edward gibbon”
“this is the guy who wrote the power broker these books are up there with decline and fall of the roman empire”— guest
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Grant
Ron Chernow
“the reason i tell everybody to read it”
“ron chernow's grant it's a thousand pages and the reason i tell everybody to read it is it's not just the story of grant”— guest
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Shackleton's Incredible Voyage
Alfred Lansing
“the book that probably had the most impact on me”
“it all began with a book called shackleton's incredible journey which is the collection of diaries of everybody who was on shackleton's journey”— guest
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Mawson's Will
Lennard Bickel
“it's just an amazing story”
“i read another one recently called mawson's will douglas mawson he was an australian”— guest
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Sapiens
Yuval Noah Harari
“he wrote a great book it's a very easy to read general explanation of the rise of human history”
“this actually is a corollary to that which is sapiens and i know that's a very normal normie answer”— guest
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Born to Run
Christopher McDougall
“another one is definitely born to run”
“another one is definitely born to run for the same reason by christopher mcdougall which is that i'm just gonna listen to this whole podcast”— guest
MediaRecommended
Blueprint for Armageddon (Hardcore History)
Dan Carlin
“i know you're a dan carlin fan so blueprint for armageddon yeah guaranteed”
“we gotta get you more into world war one because i think that's a rabbit hole which i know you're a dan carlin fan so blueprint for armageddon yeah guaranteed”— guest
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
William Shirer
“if you need a one volume rise and fall the third reich right i think you talked about that william shire”— guest
BookReferencedISBN verified
Mein Kampf
Adolf Hitler
“as he was composing mineconf and because of the beer hall putch and all that had this like absolute ability to gather people around him”— guest
BookReferencedISBN verified
The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
Edward Gibbon
“these books are up there with decline and fall of the roman empire by edward gibbon in terms of how power works”— guest
BookReferencedISBN verified
Outliers
Malcolm Gladwell
“malcolm gladwell writes finds characters to tell us the story of learning new skills and outliers”— guest
MediaReferenced
The Apprentice
NBC
“this is the guy from the apprentice yeah i'm like this is the dude yeah like because i'm like my dad and i used to sit and watch the apprentice”— guest
Big reveals from this episode
- Saagar recounts observing Trump one-on-one in the Oval Office and how Trump 'lives in the moment' with no awe for the historic room around him.
- He claims Trump doesn't actually know much US history yet genuinely believes he was one of the best presidents.
- Argues the real power isn't the president but the 'autopilot' bureaucracy that lacks democratic checks.
- Frames both Obama and Trump as failing because they hired establishment insiders instead of loyalists who'd execute their vision.
- Saagar admits he went from a UFO non-believer to thinking 'we're probably being visited by an alien civilization.'
- Confesses he was 'totally wrong' about why Trump won in 2016, concluding it was culture-war negative partisanship, not a pro-worker agenda.
- Claims Republicans would have '100%' won the election if they'd given a second $2,000 stimulus check.
- Says refusing to claim the 2020 election was stolen cost him right-wing listeners but gave him 'true freedom.'
Worth remembering
- Saagar gifted Lex Volume 2 of Ian Kershaw's Hitler biography as a first-meeting present.
- Per Rogan, Trump is 'the only president who didn't age while in office' because he lives in the moment.
- FDR aide Tommy Corcoran said a government isn't one or ten guys, 'hell it's a thousand guys' you must pick to execute your will.
- LBJ in his youth literally handed out briefcases of cash and paid people for votes, within living memory.
- Florida voted for Trump by 3.1% over Obama 2008 while passing a $15 minimum wage 67% on the same day.
- Republican support for Trump running again dropped 8 points after January 6th, then rebounded to exactly 54% after impeachment.
- Predicts the New York Times won't die but will 'become one of us' - a subscription product for upper-middle-class liberals.
- FDR met a 29-year-old LBJ and immediately predicted he'd be president someday.
- Shackleton navigated 800 miles by the stars through the Drake Passage and got every one of his men off the ice alive.
- The number one U-Haul route in the country pre-pandemic was San Francisco to Austin.
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