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Lex Fridman · 2022-04-20

Skye Fitzgerald: Hunger, War, and Human Suffering | Lex Fridman Podcast #278

Oscar-nominated documentarian Skye Fitzgerald on famine as a weapon of war, the ethics of filming suffering, and choosing humanity over the camera.

Skye Fitzgerald: Hunger, War, and Human Suffering | Lex Fridman Podcast #278
The guest

Skye Fitzgerald: A two-time Oscar-nominated documentary filmmaker behind Hunger Ward (Yemen), Lifeboat (Mediterranean rescue), and 50 Feet from Syria. He focuses on the effects of war on civilians and the use of starvation as a weapon.

What this episode covers

Skye Fitzgerald discusses his trilogy of documentaries on war, displacement, and starvation, arguing that most modern famines are manufactured by leaders who use hunger as a weapon despite international law banning it. He recounts filming children dying of starvation in Yemen, putting his camera down to pull drowning asylum seekers from the Mediterranean, and the moral duality of being both humanitarian and filmmaker. He shares his craft philosophy of access, trust, consent, and 'three creations,' and names the leaders he holds responsible (MBS, Assad, Putin). The conversation closes with personal reflections on fear, a formative failure where he froze at a fatal car crash, and the meaning he draws from making the world slightly better.

Recommended on this episode

MediaRecommended

A Woman Captured

Bernadett Tuza-Ritter

“one of my favorite documentaries of all time”
“one of my favorite documentary time documentaries of all time is a documentary called a woman captured shot in hungary”— Skye Fitzgerald
MediaRecommended

Grizzly Man

Werner Herzog

“i love grizzly man i love that's one of his best works”
“warner herzog life in the taiga the simple people i love grizzly man i love that's one of his best works”— Skye Fitzgerald
MediaRecommended

Aquarela

Victor Kossakovsky

“is one of my favorite”
“aquarella by kosokovsky victor kosovki is one of my favorite and it's a couple years old now”— Skye Fitzgerald
MediaRecommended

Immortal

Ksenia Okhapkina

“the brilliant 60-minute dock”
“the third eastern block one would be a film called immortal in 2019 which was shot in russia by a russian woman”— Skye Fitzgerald
MediaRecommended

The Toxic Pigs of Fukushima

Otto Bell

“a short dock i like but really brilliantly executed”
“there's a short dock i like i mentioned they're called the toxic pigs of fukushima it's a great title but really brilliantly executed”— Skye Fitzgerald
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Prophet

Kahlil Gibran

“i still have that book in a special place on my bookshelf because i think it speaks to the nature of human experience”
“i was given the prophet by kilio de braun when i graduation president from my high school english teacher and i still have that book in a special place”— Skye Fitzgerald
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Ten Points

Bill Strickland

“ten points is a book i love a lot”
“ten points is a book i love a lot what is it what is ten points ten points is i think his name is bill strickland”— Skye Fitzgerald
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People

Stephen Covey

“i've held on to some of those principles through my life as well for sure”
“the seven habits of highly effective people yes i read that in my early twenties and i found so many of the principles in that book”— Skye Fitzgerald

The guest's own work

MediaBy the guest

Hunger Ward

Skye Fitzgerald

“can you please tell me what hunger ward the last hope between war and starvation is about hunger ward is a short documentary”— Lex Fridman
MediaBy the guest

Lifeboat

Skye Fitzgerald

“so lifeboat really seeks to sort of lift up and showcase the asylum seeker crisis in the mediterranean when it was at its height”— Skye Fitzgerald
MediaBy the guest

50 Feet from Syria

Skye Fitzgerald

“50 feet from syria i would love to talk at least a little bit about this film first can you high level can you tell what this documentary is about”— Skye Fitzgerald

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

MediaReferenced

March of the Penguins

Luc Jacquet

“let's see much of the penguins that's probably number one for me really no i'm just kidding”— Skye Fitzgerald
MediaReferenced

Titicut Follies

Frederick Wiseman

“the fourth one would be a frederick wiseman film titica follies which was filmed in the u.s decades ago”— Skye Fitzgerald
BookReferencedISBN verified

The Princess Bride

William Goldman

“boy these are all non-fiction except for the princess bride i have to mention it's an outlier”— Skye Fitzgerald
MediaReferenced

Shadowlands

C.S. Lewis

“i directed a play called shadowlands by c.s lewis and there's a quote from that it goes like this”— Skye Fitzgerald

Big reveals from this episode

  • Fitzgerald describes the moment his crew chose to put cameras down and pull drowning people out of the water rather than film them die.
  • He names three living people the world would be better off without: MBS, Assad, and Putin, calling them murderers on an unimaginable scale.
  • He recounts watching a starved infant named Sila die in front of him, born to a mother who weighed 70 pounds.
  • He argues US military force was justified in Syria to create a no-fly zone and shoot Assad's barrel-bomb helicopters from the sky.
  • On Lifeboat his cameraman Kenny lost track of his camera entirely while pulling people from the sea for 24 hours straight.
  • He shares the darkest moment of his life: as a young man he froze and watched a woman die in a car crash, a failure that drives his work.
  • He renounces the strict 'fly on the wall' verite ideal he once held, deciding to be a human being first and filmmaker second.

Worth remembering

  • About 811 million people are hungry today and 45 million are on the edge of famine across 43 countries.
  • A child dies of hunger every 75 seconds in Yemen.
  • The Geneva Conventions banned starvation as a weapon of war because of what Hitler did, yet it continues unenforced.
  • Hunger Ward was shot by just two people in the room to preserve intimacy and access.
  • Fitzgerald uses a 'three creations' framework: the pre-shoot vision, the re-envisioning while filming, and the final discovery in the edit.
  • His log spreadsheet for Hunger Ward ran roughly 1,500 lines as he reviewed every frame.
  • He often funds his films on a credit card, going broke on a belief the story must be told, and has always ended up in the black.
  • His film 50 Feet from Syria began when his Syrian-American hand surgeon invited him to volunteer at the Syrian border.
  • His advice to young people: put down the smartphone and learn to listen, observe, read, and write.