Home Tim Ferriss Episode
Tim Ferriss · 2022-02-02

The Deep Life — Cal Newport

Cal Newport on building a deep life through slow productivity, digital minimalism, craft, and contemplation in an age of distraction.

The Deep Life — Cal Newport
The guest

Cal Newport: Associate professor of computer science at Georgetown University (PhD from MIT) who researches the theory of distributed systems. He is a New Yorker contributing writer, host of the Deep Questions podcast, and author of seven books including Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and A World Without Email.

What this episode covers

Tim Ferriss interviews Cal Newport about crafting a 'deep life', one that is resilient, meaningful, and intentional rather than driven by busyness and digital distraction. Cal traces his career from writing student-advice books in college through becoming an MIT theoretician and New Yorker writer, and explains his emerging concept of 'slow productivity,' which shifts the scale of meaningful work from days and weeks to months and years. They discuss his concrete systems, roles-and-values documents, rooted/multiscale planning, Trello boards, shutdown rituals, and seasonal time off the grid. The conversation also explores humor writing as craft, why Cal never joined social media, the philosophy of meaning and religion, and his 30-day digital declutter framework.

Recommended on this episode

BookRecommendedISBN verified

Born Standing Up

Steve Martin

“that book was very influential to me”
“because he wrote his memoir Born Standing Up which was a professional memoir the whole point of the book”— Cal Newport
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Draft No. 4

John McPhee

“Draft No. 4 makes for a really fun read”
“there's a book called Draft No. 4 by John McPhee who's a staff writer at the New Yorker and just a behemoth of a craftsman”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Dave Barry collections

Dave Barry

“his collections are fantastic”
“just read his collections he has his collections are fantastic his whole thing was to set up and then he would come in with the absurd punch”— Cal Newport
BookRecommendedISBN verified

A Walk in the Woods

Bill Bryson

“is just an outstanding outstanding book also very very good with timing”
“Bill Bryson and for people who want a place to start, A Walk in the Woods which is rediscovering America on the Appalachian Trail”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommended

The Scientists

John Gribbin

“his magisterial Tome”
“perhaps you could speak to John Gribbin's book The Scientists you mentioned a bunch of scientists earlier in this conversation”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Cryptonomicon

Neal Stephenson

“my favorite is probably Cryptonomicon”
“my favorite is probably Cryptonomicon which I think is a rare choice as a favorite but personally well not in my world computer scientists love Cryptonomicon”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommended

Why I'm a Bad Correspondent

Neal Stephenson

“he wrote that great essay... so good so good it's so good”
“you know Neil Stevenson he wrote that great essay years ago Why I'm a Bad Correspondent yeah so good so good it's so good”— Cal Newport
BookRecommendedISBN verified

How to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy

Jenny Odell

“that's a phenomenal book I think is very smart very original”
“the artist and writer Jenny Odell published a book titled How to Do Nothing subtitle Resisting the Attention Economy”— Cal Newport
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Do Nothing: How to Break Away from Overworking, Overdoing, and Underliving

Celeste Headlee

“Celeste Headlee's book is great I interviewed her for the New Yorker”
“followed by Celeste Headlee, do nothing subtitle how to break away from overworking overdoing and underliving”— Cal Newport
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Laziness Does Not Exist

Devon Price

“Price's book is great I blurbed that book”
“Devon Price's Laziness Does Not Exist ... Price's book is great I blurbed that book”— Cal Newport
BookRecommended

4,000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals

Oliver Burkeman

“I blurbed that book because it's great”
“Oliver Burkeman's new book ... 4,000 weeks time management for Mortals ... I blurbed that book because it's great”— Cal Newport
BookRecommendedISBN verified

All Things Shining: Reading the Western Classics to Find Meaning in a Secular Age

Hubert Dreyfus and Sean Dorrance Kelly

“there's this great book called All Things Shining ... gets right at this”
“there's this great book called All Things Shining and it was written by a philosopher from Harvard and a philosopher from Berkeley”— Cal Newport
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Case for God

Karen Armstrong

“I've been just trying to get people to read her because I think that's a really cool book”
“the author Karen Armstrong makes this argument very well in her book The Case for God ... I've been just trying to get people to read her”— Cal Newport
ProductRecommended

Scrivener

Literature & Latte

“I have found Scrivener just to be a lifesaver ... best composition mode of any tool out there”
“I have found Scrivener just to be a lifesaver in that department ... I've used Scrivener for many many years”— Tim Ferriss
ProductRecommended

Trello

Atlassian

“Trello has been my tool of choice ... I like that the virtual cards and all these tools can hold a lot of information”
“Trello has been my tool of choice recently for organizing tasks and the way I actually use it is I do a different board”— Cal Newport

The guest's own work

BookBy the guestISBN verified

The 4-Hour Workweek

Tim Ferriss

“my career at least in any credible sense didn't start with that and really it was the 4-Hour Workweek that put me on any map”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

How to Win at College

Cal Newport

“I had pitched it as Conquer College and the head of the agency said you can't have the hard Ks right after each other so we changed it to How to Win at College”— Cal Newport
BookBy the guestISBN verified

How to Become a Straight-A Student

Cal Newport

“this was How to Become a Straight A Student this ended up becoming probably the biggest of my student books”— Cal Newport
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The 4-Hour Body

Tim Ferriss

“that is why for instance in the 4-Hour Body or other books, Tools of Titans, certain I have written books in a modular way”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Tools of Titans

Tim Ferriss

“that is why for instance in the 4-Hour Body or other books, Tools of Titans, certain I have written books in a modular way”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Deep Work

Cal Newport

“I do these other things, deep work I think talks about this for sure but then also we talk a lot on my blog”— Cal Newport
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Digital Minimalism

Cal Newport

“burkeman comes at it from like a humanist way I kind of come at it from a humanist way too in Digital Minimalism it's about improving your life”— Cal Newport
BookBy the guestISBN verified

A World Without Email

Cal Newport

“links to everything all the resources to all of Cal's books including Deep Work, Digital Minimalism and his latest A World Without Email”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

The Deep Questions Podcast

Cal Newport

“we'll also link to a number of his New Yorker pieces to the Deep Questions podcast and you can find him online”— Tim Ferriss

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

MediaReferenced

Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee

Jerry Seinfeld

“while I was recovering I was watching Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee and one of my favorite episodes was with Steve Martin”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferencedISBN verified

Bel Canto

Ann Patchett

“I think maybe Ann Patchett it's like very well respected I might have that wrong but Bel Canto had come out around this time”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferencedISBN verified

Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman

James Gleick

“I wrote of a Richard Feynman I'd read like the James Gleick biography Genius I was a fan of John von Neumann of Einstein”— Cal Newport
BookReferencedISBN verified

Snow Crash

Neal Stephenson

“if you've heard the term metaverse probably came from his novel Snow Crash, has written many novels”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferencedISBN verified

Can't Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation

Anne Helen Petersen

“you have Anne Helen Petersen's Can't Even how Millennials became the burnout generation maybe a little less inspiring sounding”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferenced

The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People

Stephen Covey

“this comes right out of Stephen Covey sharpening the saw seven habits here are the different roles in my life”— Cal Newport
MediaReferenced

Succession

HBO

“you're watching Succession on HBO and you're like all of my moral intuitions are telling me that these are bad people”— Cal Newport
ProductReferenced

Uni-ball Signo 0.5mm rollerball pen

Uni-ball

“it's me notebook a uniball micro you know 0.5 millimeter roller pin and notes in a notebook”— Cal Newport
ProductReferenced

Waking Up

Sam Harris

“I know Sam well and have spent a lot of time around Sam I use his waking up app I've read many of his books”— Tim Ferriss

Big reveals from this episode

  • Steve Martin's advice 'be so good they can't ignore you', heard in a Charlie Rose interview, hit Cal 'like a lightning bolt' and became the foundation of his professional life.
  • Cal's emerging 'slow productivity' concept reframes work from maximizing output across days and weeks ('fast productivity') to maximizing meaningful output across months and years, which better fits the human brain.
  • Cal's 'rooted productivity' uses a single 'root document' laying out his core systems; the only real commitment is following it, and all other smaller systems branch out from that root.
  • His digital minimalism centers on a 30-day declutter where you remove all optional personal technologies, then rebuild a deliberate code for what tech you allow back and why.
  • When Cal floated the 30-day declutter to his newsletter expecting maybe seven volunteers, about 1,600 people signed up, and it became a New York Times story.
  • Cal highlights Karen Armstrong's argument (The Case for God) that religion is historically a commitment to action first, with insight and revelation following, 'act first, insight second.'
  • Cal describes his 'shutdown ritual': after closing all open loops he says the absurd phrase 'schedule shutdown complete' to short-circuit later work anxiety, a habit he invented as a grad student.

Worth remembering

  • Cal signed with his literary agent right before his 21st birthday in 2003 and has stayed with her for 20 years.
  • His book How to Become a Straight A Student has sold roughly 300,000 copies despite never being a big weekly bestseller.
  • Cal says he hasn't programmed a computer since arriving at MIT in 2004, when he joined a theory group and became a theoretician.
  • Dr. Seuss drew cartoons for the Dartmouth Jack-O-Lantern humor magazine in the 1920s.
  • Facebook arrived at colleges in 2004 when Cal was a Dartmouth computer science student and Mark Zuckerberg was a Harvard contemporary; Cal had been running Princeton Web Solutions.
  • Cal has an inability to make ranked lists (naming favorite books or movies), which contributed to his never joining early Facebook with its favorite-quote/movie profiles.
  • Cal blocks one full day off plus a half-day of 'adventure work' each week during his December break, and takes two months off in summer by declining summer research grant salary.
  • Cal works with pen and paper using a uni-ball Micro 0.5mm rollerball, filling notebooks with Greek symbols, epsilons, and exponents for his math proofs.
  • Cal switched to Scrivener for all his New Yorker writing because its split-pane feature handles the dense citation-heavy work, though he hadn't yet tried it for a book.
  • Cal pinpoints 2016 as when public sentiment about phones flipped, reactions to his social-media skepticism shifted from 'you're crazy' to 'you're absolutely right.'