Narendra Modi: Prime Minister of India, leader of the world's largest democracy of 1.4 billion people, who rose from extreme childhood poverty in Gujarat to win three terms as PM. A former RSS volunteer and spiritual seeker who spent years wandering the Himalayas before entering public life.
What this episode covers
In this wide-ranging conversation conducted in India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi shares his personal philosophy of life, service, and spirituality with Lex Fridman, who fasted for two days in honor of the meeting. Modi recounts growing up in extreme poverty in the town of Vadnagar, his early spiritual experiments, two years roaming the Himalayas as a young man, and how the RSS and Ramakrishna Mission shaped his sense of purpose. He discusses geopolitics at length, positioning himself as a peacemaker between warring nations including Russia and Ukraine, addressing tensions with Pakistan and China, and his friendships with leaders like Donald Trump and Xi Jinping. The discussion also covers the staggering logistics of Indian elections, his decision-making process during COVID, India's potential in AI, and his views on criticism, power, mortality, and meditation. Lex closes with personal reflections on his travels in India and the influence of Herman Hesse's 'Siddhartha.'
Recommended on this episode
Siddhartha
Herman Hesse
“allow me to also comment about one of the books that first drew me toward India and to its deep history of philosophical and spiritual traditions. The book is "Siddhartha" by Herman Hesse.”— Lex Fridman
Demian
Herman Hesse
“I would recommend to read "Demian" when you are younger, "Steppenwolf" when you are older, "Siddhartha" throughout your life”— Lex Fridman
Steppenwolf
Herman Hesse
“I would recommend to read "Demian" when you are younger, "Steppenwolf" when you are older, "Siddhartha" throughout your life”— Lex Fridman
The Glass Bead Game
Herman Hesse
“"Siddhartha" throughout your life, especially in moments of crisis, and "The Glass Bead Game" if you want to take on Hesse's magnum opus”— Lex Fridman
The guest's own work
Exam Warriors
Narendra Modi
“over time, these efforts have resulted in a book that's benefiting thousands of children, serving as a valuable reference for them.”— Narendra Modi
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
The Bhagavad Gita
Vyasa
“Hesse immersed himself in translations of ancient Hindu and Buddhist texts, studying the "Upanishads" and the "Bhagavad Gita."”— Lex Fridman
The Upanishads
various
“Hesse immersed himself in translations of ancient Hindu and Buddhist texts, studying the "Upanishads" and the "Bhagavad Gita."”— Lex Fridman
The Greatest Rivalry: India vs Pakistan
Netflix
“I've watched the series called the greatest rivalry, India vs. Pakistan, that describes so many incredible players, so many incredible games.”— Lex Fridman
Big reveals from this episode
- Modi reveals he specially invited Pakistan to his swearing-in ceremony as Prime Minister to turn over a new leaf, but says every peace attempt was met with hostility and betrayal.
- Modi says a scrutiny process he launched after taking office in 2014 found and removed 100 million fake or duplicate names from government welfare schemes, saving nearly 3 trillion rupees via Direct Benefit Transfer.
- Modi states he can sit with Putin and tell him 'this is not the time for war,' and tell Zelensky there will never be a resolution on the battlefield, declaring he is not neutral but stands with peace.
- Modi reveals that after his recent meeting with President Xi, India and China have returned to normalcy at the border, working to restore pre-2020 conditions after a five-year gap.
- The conversation addresses the 2002 Gujarat riots; it is noted India's independent Supreme Court twice (2012 and 2022) upheld that Modi had no involvement in the violence.
- Modi makes a bold claim that 'no matter what the world does with AI, it will remain incomplete without India,' arguing no nation can develop AI entirely on its own.
- Modi recounts persuading President Trump to walk a lap around the packed Houston 'Howdy Modi' stadium into a crowd of thousands without hesitation, throwing his entire security detail off guard.
Worth remembering
- Lex Fridman fasted for 45 hours (nearly two days) on only water in honor of the conversation to get into the right spiritual mindset.
- Modi follows the Chaturmas tradition of eating only one meal per 24 hours for about four and a half months, and during nine-day Navratri fasts drinks only hot water or eats a single fruit once a day.
- At a White House dinner, Modi joked to President Obama 'Look, my dinner has arrived!' as he placed a glass of hot water in front of himself while fasting.
- Excavations in Modi's birthplace Vadnagar uncovered evidence dating back 2,800 years, proving the city has been continuously inhabited; the Chinese philosopher Hiuen Tsang spent time there as a Buddhist learning center.
- As a poor child, Modi collected leftover chalk pieces from classrooms, soaked them into a paste, and used it to polish his white canvas shoes bright again.
- India's 2024 general elections had 980 million registered voters, of whom 646 million voted, using over one million polling booths, with results announced within a day.
- India set up a polling booth in the Gir Forest for a single voter, and uses helicopters to transport polling stations to remote areas like high-altitude Arunachal Pradesh.
- India's Chandrayaan moon mission cost less than what Hollywood spends making a single blockbuster film.
- When asked if he fears death, Modi turns the question around, noting that of life and death only death is certain, so there is no use fearing what is inevitable.
- Lex describes Indian traffic as the world's most difficult test for self-driving cars, comparing it to swarms of fish moving in seeming chaos yet working like a tuned orchestra.