Roger Reaves: One of history's most prolific drug smugglers, a pilot who flew countless tons of cocaine and marijuana for Pablo Escobar and Jorge Ochoa's Medellin Cartel, employer of Barry Seal, and author of the memoir 'Smuggler.'
What this episode covers
Roger Reaves walks Lex Fridman through a decades-long smuggling career, describing how he met Pablo Escobar and Jorge Ochoa and flew cocaine out of Colombian jungle strips for $5,000 a kilo. He details his friendship with pilot Barry Seal, the alleged CIA-Contra cocaine pipeline through Nicaragua, and the events leading to Seal's assassination. He recounts being shot down twice, tortured nearly to death in a Mexican prison, and escaping five prisons including Lubeck maximum security. The conversation turns reflective as Roger, his wife Marie, and family describe enduring 33 years of imprisonment through faith and love. He argues he was punished disproportionately compared to legal tobacco, and closes with advice, visions, and his daughter's poem.
Recommended on this episode
Chernobyl
HBO
“there's a there's a series called Chernobyl done by HBO... they did an incredible job of being historically accurate”— Lex Fridman
The guest's own work
Smuggler
Roger Reaves
“he recently got out of prison where for many years he worked on his memoir called Smuggler”— Lex Fridman
Smuggler: A Memoir
Roger Reaves
“Smuggler. A memoir. Yeah, I I really do hope that they they make a movie of this one.”— guest
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
The Big White Lie: The CIA and the Crack Cocaine Epidemic
Michael Levine
“If you would like to read the book the the big white lie the CIA and the crack cocaine epidemic the CIA put according to this book”— guest
Kings of Cocaine
Guy Gugliotta and Jeff Leen
“It's called in the book called The Big uh Kings of Cocaine. It's got a mention of me, too.”— guest
The Alchemist
Paulo Coelho
“who was the guy that writes uh the Alchemist? Paulo Coelho? He has them also just like that”— guest
The Shawshank Redemption
Frank Darabont
“Red, Morgan Freeman's character in The Shawshank Redemption says the following. These walls are funny.”— Lex Fridman
The Silence of the Lambs
Jonathan Demme
“Did you see the movie the uh Silence of the Lambs. Thank you, buddy. And he's there.”— guest
In the Ghetto
Elvis Presley
“Now we got one more and it reminds me of Elvis Presley's song In the Ghetto.”— guest
Big reveals from this episode
- Roger describes the cartel as an 'insurance company' that guaranteed replacement of any lost load, claiming 100 tons piled up under the program.
- After Escobar bombed an airliner killing women and children, Roger says he 'was sorry I ever shook his hand.'
- Roger claims Barry Seal said he couldn't get caught in Mena, Arkansas, and was having dinner with then-governor Bill Clinton.
- Roger alleges renegade CIA agents ran cocaine into the US by the ton to fund the Contras, leaving Barry Seal 'holding the bag.'
- Roger names the man who killed Barry Seal as Ronaldo, the same hitman who guarded his first cocaine load.
- Facing life in prison, Roger refused to testify against the cartel and fled to Brazil with his family.
- Tortured in a Mexican prison, Roger refused to sign a confession even through waterboarding, beatings, and chili-pepper torture.
- Roger's DC-3 was reportedly announced shot down during a 1980 World Series broadcast as the first plane downed in Reagan's war on drugs.
Worth remembering
- The cartel paid $5,000 a kilo to fly cocaine, loading 300-500 kilos per plane for an 8-hour trip.
- A million dollars in $100 bills weighs exactly 10 kilos (22 pounds); each bill weighs one gram.
- Barry Seal flew 'Panther conversion' planes with Q-tip propellers the CIA developed in Southeast Asia for quiet behind-the-lines flights.
- Roger's wife and children stayed in five-star hotels in Colombia as 'insurance' that he wasn't a DEA agent.
- After being shot down, Roger and a wounded companion escaped 7 miles on a 30-year-old donkey with no saddle.
- After being shot down in Colombia, Roger walked 11 days through jungle and stumbled into a Missionary Aviation Fellowship base.
- Roger escaped Lubeck maximum-security prison by bending bars with a rope and broom handle, then scaling scaffolding to the roof.
- Roger argues tobacco kills 500,000 Americans a year while all drugs combined kill 10,000-15,000, 60% of them pharmaceutical.
- Roger wrote over a million words of his memoir on a prison computer while guards watched through a one-way mirror.
- Lex praises HBO's Chernobyl as proof you can capture a story's spirit without being native to it if you pour your heart into it.