The guest
Dr. Dacher Keltner: Professor of psychology and co-director of the Greater Good Science Center at UC Berkeley, and a leading expert on the science of emotions, social bonding, and awe. He consulted on Pixar's Inside Out films and authored the book Awe.
What this episode covers
Andrew Huberman and Dacher Keltner explore the science of emotion, focusing on awe as a measurable, embodied experience that occurs when perception shifts from small to vast. They discuss the health benefits of awe (reduced inflammation, higher vagal tone, less pain, even reduced long COVID symptoms) and practical tools like the 'awe walk.' The conversation ranges across facial-expression research, the role of teasing and embarrassment in male bonding, collective experiences like concerts and sports, the dangers of self-focus and social media, and the redesign of cities for awe. They close on music, psychedelics, community decline and revival, campfires, and Keltner's belief in something beyond death.
Recommended on this episode
BookRecommended
The Fighter's Heart
Sam Sheridan
“a really good book, one that I like”
“there's a a really good book, one that I like, anyway, um called The Fighter's Heart by a guy named Sam Sheridan”— Andrew Huberman
MediaRecommended
The Future Is Unwritten
Julien Temple
“which I highly recommend”
“There's something about it in the documentary which I highly recommend uh called The Future Is Unwritten which is about the Joe Strummer thing”— Andrew Huberman
MediaRecommended
Raging Bull
Martin Scorsese
“One of my favorite movies, if not my favorite movie”
“One of my favorite movies, if not my favorite movie, is Raging Bull, man, and Martin Scorsese”— Dacher Keltner
The guest's own work
BookBy the guest
Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life
Dacher Keltner
“To learn more about his work and to find links to his books, including his book on awe, please see the links in the show note captions”— Andrew Huberman
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
ProductReferenced
Nattokinase
(generic supplement)
“I decided to start supplementing with nattokinase, which can naturally help reduce LDL cholesterol, and it did”— Andrew Huberman
BookReferencedISBN verified
Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body
Andrew Huberman
“I have a new book coming out... It's entitled Protocols, an operating manual for the human body... available by pre-sell at protocolsbook.com”— Andrew Huberman
BookReferencedISBN verified
How to Change Your Mind
Michael Pollan
“I'm good friends with Michael Pollan and was... kind of walk in the Berkeley hills as he was producing that book... psychedelic use is up 40% since his book”— Dacher Keltner
MediaReferenced
Inside Out
Pixar
“I've been privileged to know Pete Doctor at Pixar for 15 years and worked on some of his films, Inside Out and Inside Out 2 and Soul”— Dacher Keltner
MediaReferenced
Inside Out 2
Pixar
“worked on some of his films, Inside Out and Inside Out 2 and Soul”— Dacher Keltner
MediaReferenced
Soul
Pixar
“worked on some of his films, Inside Out and Inside Out 2 and Soul”— Dacher Keltner
Big reveals from this episode
- Keltner claims just one minute of awe a day reduced long COVID symptoms in patients.
- His dream awe experiment was to have participants meet 7'2" Shaquille O'Neal in person, but it couldn't be done.
- A symphony conductor told Keltner that musical awe is fundamentally 'all about time' and what it does to our sense of time.
- A Grateful Dead documentary names cocaine as what killed the collective spirit of music, because 'it's the me drug.'
- Keltner says he was advising Facebook when algorithms 'making people hate each other' were put in place.
- Huberman's contrarian theory: social media is the antithesis of awe because it crams all space-time into a tiny aperture.
- Huberman asks Keltner the only guest he's ever asked whether he believes in life after death; Keltner says yes.
- Keltner describes a transcendent experience the night his brother died of colon cancer that shifted him from agnostic to believing.
Worth remembering
- Alan Cowen used AI to code 2 million videos across 144 cultures, finding ~75% cross-cultural overlap in facial expressions.
- The field has expanded from Ekman's 6 basic emotions to roughly 20 distinct facial-expression states.
- A UCSF study had people 75+ take a weekly 'awe walk' for 8 weeks, yielding more awe, more kindness, and less physical pain.
- Belonging to social community is linked to about a 10-year gain in life expectancy (meta-analysis of 350,000 people).
- U.S. farmers markets went from near-nonexistent in the '90s to about 9,000 today, valued largely for community.
- Roughly 30% of meals in the U.S. are now eaten alone; picnics are down by half and church attendance has fallen to ~55%.
- In Keltner's fraternity study, the more men got embarrassed while teasing, the more they liked each other.
- Many drugs (aspirin, cocaine, kratom) are plant alkaloids that pharma companies bioprospect, isolate, and synthesize.
- Robin Carhart-Harris's data show no benefit from microdosing on major depression versus two guided psilocybin sessions.
- Joe Strummer ran the Paris Marathon reportedly while smoking and with no training, and hosted lifelong campfires in Manhattan.
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