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Lex Fridman · 2020-06-20

Steven Pressfield: The War of Art | Lex Fridman Podcast #102

Steven Pressfield reframes war as a metaphor for the inner creative battle, casting Resistance as the ego's fearful enemy of the self.

Steven Pressfield: The War of Art | Lex Fridman Podcast #102
The guest

Steven Pressfield: Bestselling author of The War of Art and historical-fiction novels like Gates of Fire about the Spartans. He is renowned for articulating the creative struggle against 'Resistance.'

What this episode covers

Lex Fridman talks with author Steven Pressfield, opening on war and human nature before Pressfield reframes the discussion: he is less interested in literal war than in war as a metaphor for the inner battle against self-doubt and Resistance. They explore mortality, reincarnation, and the muse as a source of ideas from another realm. Pressfield lays out his core dichotomy of ego versus self, with Resistance as the ego's fearful voice trying to keep control. The conversation closes on his daily writing practice, the role of an editor, and the balance between obsessive work and health.

Recommended on this episode

BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Ascent of Money

Niall Ferguson

“I recommend ... as a great book”
“I recommend a cent of money as a great book on this history debits and credits on Ledger's started around 30,000 years ago”— Lex Fridman

The guest's own work

BookBy the guestISBN verified

The War of Art

Steven Pressfield

“including the war of art a book that had a big impact on my life and the life of millions of people”— Lex Fridman
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Turning Pro

Steven Pressfield

“I highly recommend it and others of his books on this topic including turning pro do the work nobody wants to read your shit”— Lex Fridman
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Do the Work

Steven Pressfield

“and others of his books on this topic including turning pro do the work nobody wants to read your shit”— Lex Fridman
BookBy the guest

Nobody Wants to Read Your Shit

Steven Pressfield

“do the work nobody wants to read your shit and the Warrior Ethos”— Lex Fridman
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The Warrior Ethos

Steven Pressfield

“nobody wants to read your shit and the Warrior Ethos also his books gets a fire about the Spartans”— Lex Fridman
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Gates of Fire

Steven Pressfield

“also his books gets a fire about the Spartans and the Battle of Thermopylae the Lionsgate tides of war and others”— Lex Fridman
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The Lion's Gate

Steven Pressfield

“gets a fire about the Spartans and the Battle of Thermopylae the Lionsgate tides of war and others”— Lex Fridman
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Tides of War

Steven Pressfield

“the Battle of Thermopylae the Lionsgate tides of war and others are some of the best historical fiction novels ever written”— Lex Fridman
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The Virtues of War

Steven Pressfield

“in my book the virtues of war I have you read that there's a character named telamon”— guest
BookBy the guest

The Artist's Journey

Steven Pressfield

“one of the things that I did in my book the artist journey is that there were certain things where I tracked or just listed in order”— guest
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The Legend of Bagger Vance

Steven Pressfield

“I never knew my first book was The Legend of Bagger Vance I hadn't before that happened I had no clue”— guest

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

BookReferenced

The Denial of Death

Ernest Becker

“have you read the earners Becker's denial of death for example is that Ernest Becker is a philosopher”— Lex Fridman
MediaReferenced

City of Angels

Brad Silberling

“this is Anna do you ever see the movie City of Angels the visual of the movie it was meg Ryan”— guest
BookReferencedISBN verified

The Iliad

Homer

“I mean in the Iliad where gods and goddesses appear along with the human antagonists on the battlefield all the time”— guest
MediaReferenced

Casablanca

Michael Curtiz

“a better example might be something like Casablanca where in the end the Pumphrey Bogart character has to acting operating out of the self”— guest
MediaReferenced

Rosemary's Baby

Roman Polanski

“this is a supernatural thriller that's the genre sort of like Rosemary's Baby or The Exorcist”— guest
MediaReferenced

The Exorcist

William Friedkin

“this is a supernatural thriller that's the genre sort of like Rosemary's Baby or The Exorcist”— guest
MediaReferenced

Alien

Ridley Scott

“If you think about the alien on the spaceship that's like the ultimate kind of villain it keeps changing form”— guest
MediaReferenced

Out of Africa

Sydney Pollack

“there's a line in Out of Africa that God made the world round so that we couldn't see too far ahead”— guest

Big reveals from this episode

  • Pressfield reframes the entire war discussion: he is not really interested in war, but in war as a metaphor for his own internal war against Resistance.
  • He claims modern people are too 'fat and lazy' and click-obsessed to muster appetite for war anymore.
  • At 75, Pressfield admits he thinks about his own mortality constantly and finds relief that a same-age friend does 'every fucking minute.'
  • He reveals he is a believer in previous lives and reincarnation, citing children's innate personalities as evidence.
  • He locates Resistance in Jewish mysticism as the yetzer hara and frames it as the voice of the ego.
  • He delivers his central thesis: the ego (fear, separateness, death is real) versus the self (love, oneness, death is not real).
  • He admits he keeps his writing rituals secret because talking about them 'jinxes things.'

Worth remembering

  • A Spartan king, shown a weapon that could kill at 200 yards, wept and said 'alas valor is no more.'
  • Spartan honor held you should not be able to kill someone unless you were in equal danger of being killed.
  • Pressfield says he has a hard time killing a spider, so killing a person would change you utterly forever.
  • He tracked bodies of work like Bruce Springsteen's albums and Philip Roth's books to argue each life has a unique destiny.
  • He uses the film City of Angels as an analogy for unseen beings carrying our future ideas to us.
  • He says four hours is the maximum he can write per day and doesn't understand people who claim ten or twelve.
  • He stops each writing session when he knows what comes next, a trick he attributes to Hemingway or Steinbeck.
  • His perfect day starts with the gym at a 'ridiculously early' hour, then about three hours of writing before shutting off completely.