The guest
Kelsi Sheren: Canadian Forces veteran and artillery gunner who deployed to Afghanistan at 19 and came home with severe PTSD. She founded Brass & Unity, a jewelry and sunglass company that funds veteran and first-responder mental-health charities, and hosts a podcast of the same name.
What this episode covers
Kelsi Sheren recounts joining the Canadian military, training as an artillery gunner in a French-speaking unit, and deploying to Afghanistan in 2009. The conversation's emotional core is her account of an IED killing a young soldier she was with, leaving her gathering his remains by hand and triggering profound PTSD, suicidal ideation, and over-medication. She is sharply critical of how Canada handled veteran care and the chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal, including personally coordinating the rescue of an Afghan family. She describes her recovery through cannabis, an ayahuasca retreat with Heroic Hearts, and her husband's support, ending on advice about purpose, movement, and love.
Recommended on this episode
ProductRecommended
Combat Flip-Flops
Combat Flip-Flops
“they're really cool”
“combat flip-flops does this they do this they give literacy they teach girls to read nothing else to read”— Kelsi Sheren
The guest's own work
ProductBy the guest
Fucking Help Somebody mug
Brass & Unity / GFDA
“we did a mug and it's called fucking help somebody that's their like first tag”— Kelsi Sheren
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
BookReferenced
Notes from Underground
Fyodor Dostoevsky
“there's a book called uh what is it man from underground by dostoevsky i might be misnaming the book but it's about the bitterness of a man”— Lex Fridman
MediaReferenced
Commando
20th Century Fox
“my only experience with the rocket launches is from the movie commando with arnold schwarzenegger”— Lex Fridman
MediaReferenced
Platoon
Oliver Stone
“platoon you haven't seen platoon which is um you're the scientist how do you have the time”— Lex Fridman
MediaReferenced
Predator
20th Century Fox
“my experience with helicopters is mostly uh from uh another arnold schwarzenegger movie the predator”— Lex Fridman
MediaReferenced
Homeland
Showtime
“i watch like homeland i watch no i watch like i watch a lot of documentaries i watch i like to watch real real things”— Kelsi Sheren
MediaReferenced
Sex and the City
HBO
“that's sex in the city was that more important oh no i've never seen that don't don't put me in that category”— Lex Fridman
MediaReferenced
Man of Steel
Warner Bros.
“i did superman man of steel wait you sorry you you were what do you mean you did i was not a military expert but i was a a stunt expert”— Kelsi Sheren
MediaReferenced
Brothers in Arms
Dire Straits
“there's a dire straight song called uh brothers in arms and um anyway we're fools to make war on our brothers and arms”— Kelsi Sheren
BookReferenced
Do The Fucking Work
Good Fucking Design Advice (GFDA)
“i'm looking at a book that you gave me do the fucking work it's very motivating good fucking design advice that's their company”— Lex Fridman
ProductReferenced
Atlas neck brace
Atlas
“my husband's office atlas neck brace he had his very first office he had one of their prints done”— Kelsi Sheren
MediaReferenced
Fury
David Ayer
“so that's your movie like fury where your tank battles and which we don't really do anymore but you're rolling around in tanks”— Kelsi Sheren
ProductReferenced
Excalibur guided artillery round
Raytheon
“we have this round it's called the excalibur round it costs about half a million dollars per round it comes in a special tube”— Kelsi Sheren
ProductReferenced
M777 Howitzer
BAE Systems
“it's a 155 millimeter howitzer that shoots up to up to 40 kilometers accurately 45 unrecorded and it shoots a hundred pound round”— Kelsi Sheren
ProductReferenced
Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle
Saab Bofors Dynamics
“we were trained on carl g's um called m72s which are disposable rocket launchers i'll back up carl g's”— Kelsi Sheren
Big reveals from this episode
- Sheren describes a tender moment giving candy to an Afghan girl and showing her a photo of herself, a memory that haunted her for years.
- She recounts witnessing an IED explosion that blew her friend apart, the turning point where her 'light switch went off.'
- Her dissociated response to seeing his perfectly-laced boot with leg still inside: 'we could reuse the boot.'
- After the operation she admits she 'lost all humanity' and no longer saw the Taliban as human, considering boot-stomping a woman to death.
- She was medicated 'out of my mind' and put back on the guns drugged, nearly shooting someone, with her sergeant unaware.
- She reveals suicidal thoughts 'every minute of every day' for roughly six years and a self-hatred at the core of her depression.
- She describes her January 2021 ayahuasca ceremony with Heroic Hearts, including seeing her daughter and being 'turned into a wolf.'
- She calls herself a 'second class citizen' in Canada, watched by the RCMP and barred from her son's school during the pandemic.
Worth remembering
- The GPS-guided Excalibur artillery round costs about half a million dollars and requires permission from Ottawa to fire.
- As a non-officer artillery gunner she was never issued a sidearm and never carried a handgun.
- The barrel of an M777 howitzer alone is worth about a million dollars.
- She learned all her weapons systems and gun commands a second time in French after being posted to a Quebec unit.
- Combat Flip-Flops has provided literacy to 800 girls in Afghanistan through proceeds from its products.
- Her trauma is so somatic she still cannot touch or eat meat with skin on it because it feels like holding human remains.
- She used cannabis to wean off ten different pharmaceutical drugs under a doctor's supervision.
- She cites over 22 veteran suicides a day as the epidemic driving her company's charitable mission.
- The divorce rate among special-operations families she works with is around 95 percent.
- Heroic Hearts had over 800 veterans on a waiting list for psychedelic treatment.
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