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Tim Ferriss · 2024-11-13

Derek Sivers, Philosopher-Entrepreneur — The Greatest Year of His Life

Derek Sivers explains why deliberately reversing his strongest prejudices made the past year the happiest of his life.

Derek Sivers, Philosopher-Entrepreneur — The Greatest Year of His Life
The guest

Derek Sivers: Musician-turned-entrepreneur who founded CD Baby (the largest independent music seller online), former TED speaker, and author of five books including How to Live and Useful Not True; now a writer and philosophical thinker living in New Zealand.

What this episode covers

Derek Sivers tells Tim Ferriss that the past year was the greatest of his life because he reversed five long-held aversions he calls 'judging the box': coffee, the Python programming language, pet rats, China, and Dubai. He frames the meta-lesson as leaning into whatever you feel averse to, distinguishing a story-based mental 'no' from an instinctive safety 'no.' The two then explore building a diversified portfolio of perspectives by seeking friends you disagree with, and Derek profiles thinkers he is studying: Rich Hickey on simple-versus-easy, Tyler Cowen on lateral if-then reasoning about Bitcoin's Satoshi, and Brian Eno and John Cage as provocateurs. He also describes his radically simple 4x8-meter dream home, a translation-improvement project, his George Costanza 'do the opposite' phase that led to a brief disastrous marriage, and his belief that travel is about inhabiting philosophies like Arab generosity.

Recommended on this episode

BookRecommendedISBN verified

China's World View

David Daokui Li

“it's a beautiful book I highly recommend if somebody wants to understand China better”
“I read a book called China's World View by David Daokui Lee that changed my perception of the China's government too it's really impressive”— Derek Sivers
BookRecommendedISBN verified

City of Gold

“it is such a great book anybody listening to this if you want a great read read the book City of Gold about the history of Dubai it is inspiring”
“I read a book called City of Gold which was about the founding of Dubai and the creation of Dubai and dude it was so good”— Derek Sivers
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Arabian Sands

Wilfred Thesiger

“you need to read Arabian Sands... so that was really inspiring”
“somebody said oh you need to read Arabian Sands by this man named Thesiger and that gets into like the Arab bedu culture written in the 1940s or 50s”— Derek Sivers
BookRecommendedISBN verified

How Buildings Learn

Stewart Brand

“a brilliant book that everyone should read anyone who's smart... I highly recommend the how buildings learn”
“I got this tip from Stewart Brand wrote a brilliant book that everyone should read anyone who's smart that is called how buildings learn”— Derek Sivers

The guest's own work

BookBy the guestISBN verified

Useful Not True

Derek Sivers

“this is actually in my useful not true book that came out this idea that was actually a little bit sparked by you”— Derek Sivers
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The 4-Hour Workweek

Tim Ferriss

“the first time I encountered that was years ago when I saw somebody holding the 4 Hour Work week and I said oh wow great book”— Derek Sivers
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The 4-Hour Body

Tim Ferriss

“then I ended up putting that as an appendix in the 4 Hour Body fair play on his part”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guest

How to Live

Derek Sivers

“writing wise my last two books how to live and useful not true I'm spending most of my time reducing”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guest

How To Live: 27 conflicting answers and one weird conclusion

Derek Sivers

“my previous book called How To Live was 27 conflicting philosophies and one weird answer and the whole idea was that it's 27 chapters”— Derek Sivers

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

ProductReferenced

Batil emirati coffee

Batil

“he sold me one batch... if you're in Dubai and you want to try real Emirati coffee apparently according to this emirati try batil in Dubai”— Derek Sivers
ProductReferenced

Oblique Strategies cards

Brian Eno

“I have not met Brian Eno but I have his oblique strategy yes wow card set”— Derek Sivers
BookReferenced

The Work

Byron Katie

“I think your new book pairs well with Byron Katie's the work very much which focuses on a lot of what we're discussing”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferenced

Emergency

Neil Strauss

“another example is in Neil Strauss's book called emergency I'll never forget this point he said that he's off at one of these Nomad sovereign individual events”— Derek Sivers
ProductReferenced

Pimsleur Spanish

Pimsleur

“I spent like a month learning pimsleur basic Spanish and I was like oh my God this is a great language this is amazing”— Derek Sivers

Big reveals from this episode

  • Sivers describes his 'George Costanza principle' after selling CD Baby: deliberately doing the opposite of every impulse to shake up his trajectory, saying yes when everything in him said no.
  • He reveals the unifying theme of his five changed-mind stories: he doesn't just love the new things, he loves that he now loves what he used to hate, and last year was the happiest of his life because of these five reversals.
  • Sivers explains his core operating philosophy: finding things out 'in fact, not in theory' by throwing himself into experiments, accepting he'll mess up because his baseline happiness lets him absorb the hits.
  • He admits the marriage that resulted from his 'say yes' experiment was awful and recognized as a mistake within days, but says he's happy he did it because he learned in fact rather than wondering.
  • He unpacks Rich Hickey's 'Simple Made Easy' distinction: complex means braided/intertwined with other things (objective), while easy means near-at-hand (subjective), and you should choose simple even when it's harder.
  • He recounts Tyler Cowen's Bloomberg piece on Satoshi as a masterpiece of if-then reasoning, where every possible identity for Bitcoin's inventor yields a profound lesson about people, secrecy, and failed projects.
  • Sivers reveals why he travels: not to see sights or take photos, but to inhabit philosophies and embody living ways of thinking like Brazilian-ism or Arab generosity.
  • He closes by revealing Useful Not True is sold only through his own website and deliberately not on Amazon because he dislikes the company.

Worth remembering

  • An Emirati host pressured Sivers into trying Emirati coffee, which broke his lifelong dislike of coffee; he names the vendor 'Batel' in Dubai as one of only three places that make real Emirati coffee.
  • Sivers brings out his two pet rats, Cricket and Clover, noting their 2-3 year lifespan makes them ideal for kids and that they use a litter box and can be trained to fetch money from a wallet.
  • In Shanghai he was struck by silence because the vehicles are electric, plus color-coded rental bikes and tap-to-pay via Alipay/WeChat, completely reversing his 2010 impression of a rough, spitting China.
  • He describes Tamashee (tamashee.com), a Dubai sandal store run by Mohammed Kazim that is secretly a vehicle for teaching Arab culture, comparing it to San Francisco's pirate-supply storefront on Valencia Street.
  • Kazim told Sivers his family keeps recorded family history going back roughly 1,800 years, to before Islam arrived around the year 600.
  • Sivers is building a 4x8-meter dream home north of Wellington with nothing inside, following Stewart Brand's How Buildings Learn principle of leaving all pipes and wires exposed so they're easy to change.
  • He cites Neil Strauss's book Emergency, where a man brags about a complex tax setup to save 30% and Strauss asks why he wouldn't just work 30% harder to make 30% more.
  • Sivers built incword.com, a system that splits a finished book into individual sentences, pays translators escalating rates (50 cents to $2+) per sentence, and uses reader votes to decide which translation wins.
  • He became fluent in Esperanto six years ago on Benny Lewis's advice and regrets it, calling Esperanto 'hippie Klingon' after a Seoul conference full of tie-dye-clad people singing about world peace.
  • A Saudi acquaintance he'd met once told Sivers to cancel his hotel and stay in his Burj Khalifa apartment in Dubai, sending an uncle with the keys though the host himself wasn't even there, illustrating Arab generosity.