The guest
Dan Carlin: Creator and host of the wildly popular Hardcore History and Common Sense podcasts, and a former radio broadcaster who blends history with philosophy. He is widely regarded as one of the most influential long-form podcasters.
What this episode covers
Lex Fridman talks with historian-storyteller Dan Carlin in a sprawling, philosophical conversation that begins with the nature of evil and the difference between force and violence. They explore why warriors are heroes yet often victims, the ideological similarities between the USSR and USA, and how to understand Putin, Hitler, and Genghis Khan as products of their times. The talk turns darker toward how civilization might destroy itself, with climate and collective inaction as Carlin's odds-on favorite threat, before pivoting to a more hopeful discussion of individuals like Elon Musk who engineer self-interest toward good. It closes on the future of podcasting, the Spotify/Joe Rogan deal, Carlin's craft and unreleased episode ideas, and the meaning of it all.
Recommended on this episode
ProductRecommended
Tesla
Tesla
“create a car that if you're only motivated by your self-interest you'll buy it anyway and it will help the environment”
“what he's done is recognize that problem and instead of building a car that's a piece of crap he's trying to create a car that if you're only motivated by your self-interest you'll buy it anyway”— guest
The guest's own work
MediaBy the guest
Hardcore History
Dan Carlin
“the following is a conversation with dan carlin host of hardcore history and common sense podcasts to me hardcore history is one of if not the greatest podcast ever made”— host
MediaBy the guest
Common Sense
Dan Carlin
“you've uh recorded an episode of steering into the iceberg on your common sense program yeah that has started a lot of conversations”— host
BookBy the guestISBN verified
The End Is Always Near
Dan Carlin
“so i have a book that i wrote right and uh and in a book you have a hard deadline right so harpercollins had a hard deadline on that book”— guest
MediaBy the guest
Blueprint for Armageddon
Dan Carlin
“blueprint for armageddon the first world war series we did that was in my back pocket the whole time”— guest
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
BookReferencedISBN verified
Mein Kampf
Adolf Hitler
“if you believe hitler's writings for example mein kampf uh which you know is written by a guy who's a political figure”— guest
BookReferencedISBN verified
From Here to Eternity
James Jones
“james jones who wrote uh uh books like from here to eternity fictional accounts of the second world war but he based them on his own service”— guest
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Secret History of the Mongols
Anonymous
“there's something called the secret history of the mongols and there's things written down by mongolian overlords through people like persian and chinese scribes”— guest
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
William L. Shirer
“i've uh i've recently almost done with the rise in the fall of the third reich it's one of the historical descriptions of hitler's rise to power”— host
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Next 100 Years
George Friedman
“i read a book a while back i want to say george friedman the stratfor guy wrote it was something called the next hundred years”— guest
MediaReferenced
This Is Spinal Tap
Rob Reiner
“i always say we make it like they made things like spinal tap and some of those other things where um the material”— guest
Big reveals from this episode
- Carlin says the very first Hardcore History episode was 'Alexander versus Hitler,' built entirely around the question of motivation and whether intentions matter more than outcomes.
- Carlin states he actually believes some people are born evil, that 'the dna can get scrambled up in ways.'
- He recounts Hermann Goering's line on how easy it is to drag a population into war by appealing to their patriotism.
- Carlin argues power changed Putin, that he was 'a humble loyal honest man when he took power' and is a very different man today.
- He calls the White Rose youth resisters braver than German military officers who secretly undermined Hitler, because the students openly faced the guillotine.
- Both discuss the 'darkest silver lining' that Hitler's antisemitism, by driving out scientists like Einstein, may have cost Germany the atomic bomb.
- Carlin says he is more impressed by Tesla than SpaceX because it engineers self-interest to solve the environmental problem.
- Carlin admits that in 'Steering Into the Iceberg' he endorsed a major-party political candidate for the first time in 30 years, angering listeners.
Worth remembering
- Carlin frames force as almost a law of physics in human interaction, arguing civilization may require force even if violence could one day be abolished.
- Lex's grandfather was a Red Army machine gunner who survived by being wounded early, rising in rank only because everyone around him died.
- Carlin argues both the USA and USSR are ideologically-based societies, unlike France which is 'French no matter what the government.'
- Carlin's Genghis Khan episode used the sub-theme of the 'historical arsonist' who burns away dead wood so society can be reborn.
- The Eurasian steppe nomads' military edge was an uncopyable human-animal bond on horseback, comparable to centaurs, that ended only with gunpowder.
- Lord Acton's idea that great men are often not good men frames Carlin's view that leadership requires jettisoning ordinary moral qualities.
- Carlin notes Allied sympathy and a sense of justice toward Germany may have stayed their hand and ironically enabled far worse outcomes.
- Carlin credits John F. Kennedy alone with possibly saving a hundred million lives during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
- From his talk-radio days, Carlin describes being pressured to create 'heat,' division engineered for profit, not politics.
- Carlin describes a rediscovered tape of Hitler conversing normally with a Finnish general, revealing a 'different side of this twisted character.'
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