The guest
Mariana van Zeller: Portuguese investigative journalist and host of National Geographic's 'Trafficked,' reporting boots-on-the-ground from illegal markets around the world.
What this episode covers
Mariana van Zeller returns to talk about reporting on the world's black markets for her National Geographic series 'Trafficked.' She walks Joe through ghost guns, the U.S.-to-Mexico gun pipeline, psychedelics, the opioid crisis and Florida pill mills, and the trafficking of endangered apes to private zoos in the UAE. The conversation spans stolen oil financing terrorist groups in Nigeria and Lebanon, Ukrainian surrogacy, illegal bare-knuckle fight clubs and CTE, underground gambling, cyber/ID theft, and organ trafficking along the Darien Gap. Her recurring theme: most people in these markets are driven by poverty and lack of opportunity, and inequality is the root cause of the black markets she investigates.
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The guest's own work
MediaBy the guest
Trafficked with Mariana van Zeller
National Geographic
“it's uh trafficked with Mariana van Zeller it's on National Geographic next day on Hulu and that's on Wednesdays at 9 00 pm”— Mariana van Zeller
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The Oxycontin Express
Mariana van Zeller
“well that's how I found out about you from the Oxycontin Express that that was so eye-opening”— Joe Rogan
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
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The Liberator (3D-printed gun)
Defense Distributed
“who was the first one to use a ghost gun or a gun a 3D printed gun actually it's called The Liberator and he got into all sorts of trouble”— Mariana van Zeller
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Alex Berenson
“he wrote a book called uh tell your children and it was about marijuana and the dangers of marijuana”— Joe Rogan
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American Pain
Darren Foster
“his actually had a film on CNN that's coming on HBO Max uh in April and it's called America[n Pain]”— Mariana van Zeller
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The Sopranos
HBO
“the day before we'd been watching The Sopranos so in my mind they were coming out guns of Blazing and they were going to kill us both”— Mariana van Zeller
MediaReferenced
Tiger King
Netflix
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The Ultimate Fighter
UFC
“the reality show was The Ultimate Fighter Ultimate Fighting it wasn't a challenge no it was”— Joe Rogan
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Cobalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives
Siddharth Kara
“this is Cobalt red um the con how the blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives um having this conversation with him”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- For her first guns story she bought an AK-47 out of a Taco Bell parking lot in Arizona via Backpage, then days later a .50 cal from a guy's garage.
- A 'ghost gun' is simply an untraceable gun; 80% kits plus 3D printing make home-built firearms easy, and teens make drop-in auto-sears for 50 cents.
- While reporting on Florida pill mills she and her husband were chased on I-95 by the George twins, who ran 'American Pain,' the biggest pill mill in U.S. history.
- Baby gorillas and chimps sell for tens of thousands of dollars to private zoos, often in the UAE, with mothers killed to take the babies.
- In Nigeria's Niger Delta 30-90% of oil is stolen ('bunkered'), refined in hellish barefoot conditions, and sold to groups like Boko Haram.
- At a stolen-oil site workers picked up buckets of hot oil and threatened to throw it at her crew, thinking they were from an oil corporation.
- Organ trafficking is real: a Colombian 'wrecker' for the clan cuts organs from living migrants, and a Mexican doctor defends black-market kidneys.
- A Miami single mom buys stolen credit-card data on 'Vice City' with a money-back guarantee; a Crips member made over $1M off COVID unemployment fraud.
Worth remembering
- There are only five or six LSD chemists in the whole country; she interviewed a former one living out of a school bus in Montana who wept over losing his life's meaning.
- Portugal decriminalized drugs with huge success: incarceration dropped, AIDS rates fell, and most people choose rehab over prison.
- Only one pharma CEO went to prison over the opioid crisis, charged with bribing doctors to over-prescribe a fentanyl spray (Subsys).
- There are more tigers in captivity in Texas than there are in the wild in the entire world.
- Locals describe 'Bondo apes,' rumored six-foot, hundreds-of-pounds chimps that nest on the ground like gorillas and were filmed eating a leopard.
- Bonobos use sex to resolve conflict, and the mother is the only family member who won't have sex with her son.
- Ukraine became a global surrogacy hub, leaving American babies stuck in Ukrainian wombs when the war broke out.
- CTE comes largely from sub-concussive blows; even soccer players get it from heading the ball.
- Joe and a business partner once hit an 84% win rate betting on UFC fights, partly thanks to Anderson Silva's early dominance.
- Gambling addiction is reportedly a leading cause of suicide, including among teens who get too far in the hole.
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