The guest
Chase Hughes: Behavior, influence and interrogation expert who trains military psyops, runs the YouTube channel The Behavior Panel, and built a SciOps-scoring tool and a daily news show (Station One).
What this episode covers
Chase Hughes opens by describing a 5.5-hour intravenous DMT session pursued partly to treat his brain disease (mesial temporal sclerosis) and the ego-dissolving aftermath. He and Joe explore consciousness, dreams, fractal universes, and the case for psychedelics like ibogaine and psilocybin as fast, neuroregenerative therapy for PTSD, addiction and dementia. Joe recounts the UFC card at the White House and the Gaethje-Topuria main event. The back half pivots to manipulation: Chase explains category warfare, elicitation, the loneliness epidemic, and his SciOps index, while Joe revisits being 'turned green' by CNN during COVID and the coordinated pressure on him. They close on shame versus guilt and the regrets of the dying.
Recommended on this episode
MediaRecommended
DMT: The Spirit Molecule
Mitch Schultz
“that was what kind of introduced me to the entire the field of everything; that was the big shift was watching that that documentary for me”
“It was uh the Spirit Molecule movie that you did the voiceover for it. And that was what kind of introduced me to the entire the field of everything”— Chase Hughes
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Pure Encapsulations Macular Support
Pure Encapsulations
“I take those; I've been taking those steadily at the same time I've been doing the red light therapy and it works”
“I take this uh no affiliation. I don't work with them or anything, but it's called uh Pure Encapsulations Macular Support. They have a supplement for it. I take those.”— Joe Rogan
The guest's own work
MediaBy the guest
The Behavior Panel
Chase Hughes
“I don't know if you've ever seen our YouTube channel, The Behavior Panel. Me and a couple of guys.”— Chase Hughes
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
BookReferencedISBN verified
How to Change Your Mind
Michael Pollan
“you need to take these steps to give people a path to change their mind. I think that's the title of Michael Pollan's book, and it's a great way to describe it.”— Joe Rogan
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross
John Marco Allegro
“there's a great book called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. Have you ever read that? The John Marco Allegro book?”— Joe Rogan
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The Immortality Key
Brian Muraresku
“That's the Eleusinian Mysteries. That's from Brian Muraresku's book. Um The Immortality Key.”— Joe Rogan
BookReferencedISBN verified
DMT: The Spirit Molecule
Rick Strassman
“my big shift was reading Rick Strassman's book. he was the first guy to get FDA approval to do psychedelic studies.”— Joe Rogan
BookReferencedISBN verified
Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things
George Lakoff
“he wrote a book called Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things. That was the first language categories that we had for language was women, fire, and dangerous stuff.”— Chase Hughes
BookReferenced
The Red Queen
Matt Ridley
“And have you ever read Red Queen? It's about biological behavior. It talks about like adultery in females occurs during ovulation most of the time”— Chase Hughes
MediaReferenced
Avatar
James Cameron
“when the movie Avatar came out, it was so wonderful, the experience and they these people seemed like to live such a righteous, peaceful existence”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
The Truman Show
Peter Weir
“in the '90s, there was a Truman Show syndrome.”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
The Telepathy Tapes
Ky Dickens
“The Telepathy Tapes shot out of of a cannon. Like nobody's ever heard of that stuff. And I think you had the director or something on the show.”— Chase Hughes
ProductReferenced
Neuralink
Neuralink
“a paralyzed gentleman that we have had on the podcast who was the first Neuralink patient. He said it's like a cheat code.”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Chase did a 5.5-hour intravenous DMT session via an anesthesia-style pump and plans to mix Alzheimer's drugs with it next time to improve memory retrieval.
- Chase says alien-like beings ripped him open and drilled into his head during the trip; afterward his wife revealed she had prayed for them to fix his heart and brain.
- Former Texas governor Rick Perry's age-related brain atrophy reportedly reversed after ibogaine sessions, and he now says promoting psychedelics is his life's mission.
- Chase claims he developed a hypnosis method to edit memories and shift perspective on trauma, inspired by game developers' 'modify one pixel' trick.
- Chase reveals he trains the U.S. Army psyops division at Fort Bragg and built a tool that scores how likely an event is a psyop (1-100).
- Chase bought a former TV station and launched a daily news show, Station One, that runs the day's events through his SciOps index.
- Joe says presidents and former presidents contacted Spotify trying to get him removed for vaccine misinformation, backed by PACs and heavy funding.
Worth remembering
- The UFC card at the White House drew ~4,000 seated plus ~85,000 free fans on the ellipse, and every one of the seven fights ended by knockout.
- Early ayahuasca researchers wanted to name harmine 'telepathine' for its telepathic effects but couldn't because it was already named.
- The Amanita Muscaria mushroom looks like an apple, links to Santa Claus and Christmas-tree traditions, and reindeer drink shamans' urine to get a second dose.
- Methylene blue is an MAO inhibitor used in every ER since the 1890s and is the only cure for cyanide poisoning.
- Methylene blue has a neuronal affinity, dyeing neurons blue so they absorb red/near-infrared light, boosting red light therapy effectiveness.
- Anderson Cooper interned at the CIA for two summers at Yale, and Walter Cronkite was an alleged CIA asset under Operation Mockingbird.
- Cold War MKUltra and military programs sprayed aerosolized chemicals (zinc cadmium sulfide) over cities including St. Louis, Minneapolis and Corpus Christi.
- Chase teaches CIA 'elicitation' tactics: provocative statements, triggering a need to correct the record, and feigned disbelief extract more than questions.
- Counterintelligence training's first rule: if you're a four and a ten is interested in you, she's a spy.
- Chase notes people buy items labeled 'handmade' over 'machine made' because we are drawn to the humanness and flaws of things.
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