Rick Rubin: Legendary music producer and Def Jam co-founder (LL Cool J, Run-DMC, Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Johnny Cash, Jay-Z) and author of The Creative Act.
What this episode covers
Rick Rubin tells Joe Rogan how he stumbled into producing hip-hop as an NYU student documenting the raw sound of downtown clubs, and how records like It's Yours and Walk This Way were efforts to prove rap was real music. He argues all great art comes from being true to your own taste rather than imitating what's already successful, drawing parallels between music, stand-up comedy, and Andrew Dice Clay's career. He shares his creative process working with Jay-Z, the Chili Peppers, and System of a Down, and explains how his book The Creative Act became a guide to a creative way of being. Rubin recounts a near-death house fire whose only silver lining was relief that the book was finished, his 22 years of veganism that left him at 320 pounds, and the high-protein diet, cold plunges, and training with Laird Hamilton that transformed him. The conversation closes on his surprising obsession: watching 11 hours of pro wrestling a week and once funding his own real-wrestling league.
Recommended on this episode
Born Standing Up
Steve Martin
“did you ever read um born standing up Steve Martin yes yeah such a great book it's a great book”— Rick Rubin
Paul's Boutique
Beastie Boys
“Paul's Boutique is one of my favorite albums ever it's incredible it's great”— Joe Rogan
The Day the Laughter Died
Andrew Dice Clay
“the day the laughter died cassette one which is one of my all-time favorite comedy CDs”— Joe Rogan
Blood Sugar Sex Magik
Red Hot Chili Peppers
“blood sugar Sex Magic was so good and it had so much power to it”— Joe Rogan
Kill Tony
Tony Hinchcliffe
“The best live uh comedy podcast in the world it's called kill Tony”— Joe Rogan
Jay Robb Egg White Protein
Jay Robb
“j-rob egg white protein and what do you mix it with water and tastes great yeah it's good”— Rick Rubin
The guest's own work
The Creative Act: A Way of Being
Rick Rubin
“the book is called the creative act a way of being Rick Rubin it's available now”— Joe Rogan
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Diet for a New America
John Robbins
“a friend of mine gave me a book called diet for a new America and he said if you read this book”— Rick Rubin
It's Yours
T La Rock
“after that we'll listen to Tila Rock it's yours and you'll hear the difference”— Rick Rubin
Walk This Way
Run-DMC & Aerosmith
“there's a song I produced with um Run DMC and Aerosmith Walk This Way”— Rick Rubin
The Chronic
Dr. Dre
“and then The Chronic of course you know I mean literally to cover the album”— Joe Rogan
Straight Outta Compton
N.W.A
“I actually visited in the studio when they were recording Straight Outta Compton album”— Rick Rubin
Chop Suey
System of a Down
“there's song um System of Down song called I think it's song Chop Suey”— Rick Rubin
99 Problems
Jay-Z
“like when we were recording 99 problems I played the beat for him he likes the beat”— Rick Rubin
iPad
Apple
“he had an iPad and his girlfriend said that he was like listening to recordings and writing”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Rubin's century-old Texas house burned to the ground; he went back to sleep after his wife screamed fire, then nearly died crawling through black smoke before neighbors got him out.
- As he was losing consciousness in the fire, his main thought was relief that his book was done and his information would live on.
- Days before the fire Rubin did Lex Fridman's podcast and was unexpectedly asked if he feared death; the clip dropped right after the fire happened.
- After 22 years as a vegan Rubin ballooned to 318-320 pounds, then lost 130 pounds in 14 months on a high-protein, low-carb diet.
- In the 1990s Rubin funded his own real pro-wrestling league, Smoky Mountain Wrestling, with Jim Cornette because mainstream wrestling had gone soft for kids.
- Rubin describes Jay-Z recording 99 Problems with no paper, humming for 20 minutes then delivering a complex verse entirely from his head.
- Walk This Way with Run-DMC and Aerosmith was conceived to prove hip-hop was music, and it both broke Run-DMC mainstream and revived Aerosmith's stalled career.
Worth remembering
- A record-label executive courting early Def Jam told them, 'after all it's not music', hip-hop wasn't even recognized as music at the time.
- Radio stations initially played Public Enemy's instrumentals without Chuck D's vocals because he didn't sound like other MCs.
- Anthony Kiedis writes lyrics by singing nonsense words over music, then assembling the good-sounding phrases like a puzzle.
- The high-point bridge lyric in System of a Down's Chop Suey came from randomly opening a book and using the first phrase the singer saw.
- Rubin couldn't do a single push-up when he met Laird Hamilton, who broke the movement into pieces until Rubin could do 100 consecutive.
- During lockdown in Hawaii, Rubin worked up to 30-minute cold plunges at 39 degrees before even getting in the sauna.
- Rubin met Andrew Dice Clay at Greenblatt's deli right after a Laugh Factory set and they started making comedy records together.
- Joe Rogan got pulled into comedy after a coworker reenacted a Sam Kinison necrophilia bit in a gym parking lot.
- Rubin recorded Blood Sugar Sex Magik in a rented mansion and a Strokes album outdoors atop a Costa Rican mountain to spark new creative energy.
- Ric Flair was genuinely terrified the first time the figure-four leglock was applied to him because he believed it was as deadly as announcers claimed.