The guest
Michael Easter: Investigative journalist, professor, and author of The Comfort Crisis and Scarcity Brain who studies human behavior, addiction, and how evolution shapes modern habits.
What this episode covers
Joe Rogan and Michael Easter discuss the ideas behind Easter's book Scarcity Brain, centered on the 'scarcity loop' (opportunity, unpredictable rewards, quick repeatability) that hooks people on slot machines, social media, dating apps, and gig work. Easter recounts reporting trips to a secret Las Vegas behavioral-research casino, to Iraq to study the amphetamine captagon, to monks in New Mexico, and to the Chimane tribe in the Bolivian Amazon. They explore why humans can't moderate, how putting numbers on things (likes, GPAs, wine scores, hunting trophy inches) warps behavior, and Easter's nine years of sobriety and rejection of the brain-disease model of addiction. The conversation closes on hunting, fitness, ultra-processed food, and the value of hard-won rewards.
Recommended on this episode
MediaRecommended
Happy People: A Year in the Taiga
Werner Herzog
“it's great”
“have you seen Werner herzog's documentary happy people I don't think I've seen that one no it's great”— Joe Rogan
MediaRecommended
Sour Grapes
“it's amazing documentary”
“the documentary is called sour grapes and it's amazing documentary I haven't seen I've seen it pop up”— Joe Rogan
ProductRecommended
Rogue Echo Bike
Rogue
“that one helped me a lot”
“another thing I did a lot of is the Echo Bike you know it's like an assault bike with a Rogue bike that one helped me a lot”— Joe Rogan
The guest's own work
BookBy the guestISBN verified
Scarcity Brain
Michael Easter
“my book scarcity brain which is coming out soon it has a whole chapter on this and why exploration is so important”— Michael Easter
BookBy the guestISBN verified
The Comfort Crisis
Michael Easter
“he had read the Comfort crisis my last book and just wanted to chat so NASA will do this to sort of give astronauts a boost”— Michael Easter
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
BookReferenced
Dante's Inferno
Dante Alighieri
“there's this great um in Dante's Inferno the book he describes Satan as living in a world of cold and ice”— Michael Easter
ProductReferenced
Hydro Flask
Hydro Flask
“I had a giant 64 ounce or 62 ounce whatever it is 64 ounce Hydro Flask filled with uh like liquid IV and water”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Liquid IV
Liquid I.V.
“64 ounce Hydro Flask filled with uh like liquid IV and water so I'm just out there hydrating in 104 degree heat”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Iron Neck
Iron Neck
“I'll do the iron neck and I'll do um you know those hip glute ham machines where you you can do a sit-up where you're like way low”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Adderall
“the wild one in America that's legal is Adderall yeah so we have we have billions of pills circulating as well”— Michael Easter
ProductReferenced
Zyn
“we can't be Hypocrites we're on coffee and I I've got a Zen in my mouth that goes back as like people”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Glock 10mm
Glock
“he pulled out you know the Glock 10 millimeter just opened up the clip and he ended up shooting himself in the ankle”— Michael Easter
Big reveals from this episode
- Easter visited a brand-new, invite-only Las Vegas casino funded by 73 companies, including gambling firms and Fortune 500 tech, used entirely for research on human behavior.
- He lays out the 'scarcity loop': opportunity, unpredictable rewards, and quick repeatability, the three-part hook behind slot machines, social media, dating apps, and gig work.
- Easter reveals he has been sober from alcohol for nine years and changed his mind, now rejecting the brain-disease model of addiction.
- He traveled to Iraq to study captagon, an amphetamine-like pill that Syria pumps out by the billions as a narco-state.
- Smugglers sew captagon pills inside the stomachs of live sheep to move them across the Syria-Iraq border.
- Easter lived with the Chimane tribe in the Bolivian Amazon, who have the healthiest hearts ever recorded, eating simple single-ingredient real food.
- Joe says he is basically on the carnivore diet, cut out the junk, lost 10 pounds, and made a giant difference for his hunting fitness.
Worth remembering
- Saw-like cut marks on bones at Alaska's Boneyard dated 10,000+ years old predate the saw's supposed invention around 7,000 years ago.
- The average home today holds an estimated 10,000 to 40,000 items, versus roughly 100 a couple hundred years ago.
- The average slot machine player plays about 16 games per minute, unusually fast repeatability for a habit.
- In Thomas Zentall's experiments, 97% of pigeons choose a random-reward gambling game over a steadier food source.
- US incomes rose about 50% in real dollars from roughly 1979 to 2005, yet measured happiness did not increase.
- Benedictine monks in New Mexico report higher happiness than the general public despite an austere, demanding life.
- 41.4 million Adderall prescriptions were dispensed in the US in 2021, up more than 10% from 2020.
- One in 10 Americans report having overcome a substance abuse issue, and about 50% of them did it on their own.
- The island of Lanai has about 3,000 people and 30,000 deer, descendants of axis deer gifted to King Kamehameha.
- About 60% of the food the average American eats is ultra-processed; an NIH study found people eat 500 more calories a day on an ultra-processed diet.
More from Joe Rogan
All 6342 recommended