The guest
Rick Strassman: Psychiatrist and DMT researcher who ran the first U.S. government-approved human DMT studies (1990-1995) and wrote 'DMT: The Spirit Molecule.' He later learned biblical Hebrew and now translates the Hebrew Bible, comparing prophetic experiences to the DMT state.
What this episode covers
Strassman and Rogan explore the idea that biblical prophecy and visionary texts (Ezekiel, the burning bush, the Book of Enoch) may describe endogenous-DMT or psychedelic states. They range across the origins of the Hebrew Bible, the Nephilim and giants, Sodom and Gomorrah, the flood, and Strassman's view that early biblical events occurred in an 'alternative dimension' that gradually merged with our reality. The conversation turns to AI as a possible non-human 'Messiah' or new life form, the legalization and risks of psychedelics, and Strassman's own DMT trials. Personal threads include Strassman's near-fatal C. diff illness, recovery, and faith, plus tangents on coyotes, kosher dietary laws, exercise versus antidepressants, and Philip K. Dick.
Recommended on this episode
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Last and First Men
Olaf Stapledon
“a very cool book I try to mention as often as possible”
“a very cool book I try to mention as often as possible is called The Last and The First and Last Men by Olaf Stapleton.”— Rick Strassman
BookRecommendedISBN verified
The Kabbalah of Envy
Nilton Bonder
“found a very cool book called”
“found a very cool book called The Cabala of Envy by Milton Bonder. and it's a very short book and he starts describing the difference between a grudge and revenge and envy and jealousy”— Rick Strassman
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Empire of the Summer Moon
S.C. Gwynne
“in the middle of the audio book Empire of the Summer Moon for the second time”
“I'm in the middle of the audio book Empire of the Summer Moon for the second time. It's all about the Comanches and the war between the settlers and the Comanches here. It's crazy.”— Joe Rogan
BookRecommendedISBN verified
Coyote America
Dan Flores
“It's really good”
“Have you ever read Dan Flores book Coyote America? It's really good. It's about the origin of the coyote and why the coyote is everywhere now.”— Joe Rogan
MediaRecommended
Blade Runner
Ridley Scott
“Blade Runner was amazing”
“Blade Runner was amazing. The original Bladerunner with Rutger Hauer.”— Joe Rogan
The guest's own work
BookBy the guest
Joseph the Comforter (This Prophecy / prophecy book comparing DMT to Hebrew Bible prophecy)
Rick Strassman
“Oh, so this is a book I wrote 11 years ago. This prophecy. It compares the DMT state to the state of prophecy in the Hebrew Bible.”— Rick Strassman
BookBy the guestISBN verified
Joseph Levy Escapes Death
Rick Strassman
“I had C diff some years ago. I even wrote a book about it. Anybody's interested, Joseph Levy escapes death.”— Rick Strassman
BookBy the guestISBN verified
DMT: The Spirit Molecule
Rick Strassman
“DMT the spirit molecule which is what got me into you in the first place. What a great cover too. That Alex Gray artwork.”— Joe Rogan
BookBy the guestISBN verified
The Soul of Prophecy (DMT and the Soul of Prophecy)
Rick Strassman
“it came out in 2014. what's the soul prophecy? Is it the visions or is it the message? and then those are the other books that are available.”— Rick Strassman
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
BookReferenced
St. Peter's Snow
Leo Perutz
“it's about a compound like LSD that the governor serves all the people in the province to see, you know, for them to have a spiritual experience. And instead, they turn on him and kill him while they're tripping.”— Rick Strassman
BookReferenced
The Book of Enoch
Enoch (traditional, inferred)
“I'm in the middle of the audio book of the book of Enoch and it's one of the wildest things I've ever listened to in my life.”— Joe Rogan
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Red Tent
Anita Diamant
“there was a book called the red tent”— Rick Strassman
BookReferencedISBN verified
After Many a Summer Dies the Swan
Aldous Huxley
“I read this little novel by Aldis Huxley for many a summer dies a swan. It's about these people who live forever by eating the intestinal microbiome of karp.”— Rick Strassman
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Man in the High Castle
Philip K. Dick
“I watched the TV show, what's it called? The man from the high castle and got me interested in reading the novel by Dick and went through most of his work.”— Rick Strassman
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
Philip K. Dick
“it reminds me of that PK Dick story. The three stigmata of Palmer Eldrich. It's about competition between an interstellar psychedelic versus a terrestrial psychedelic.”— Rick Strassman
BookReferencedISBN verified
A Scanner Darkly
Philip K. Dick
“The one with Keanu Reeves and Robert Downey Jr. and the rotoscope. Scanner Dark. So, that's a novel by Dick. Very interesting.”— Joe Rogan
BookReferencedISBN verified
Abduction
John E. Mack
“his experiences mirror a lot of the experiences from the John Mack book, you know. did you read that book Abduction?”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
Ancient Apocalypse
Graham Hancock
“Have you been watching season two of Graham Hancock's Ancient Apocalypse? it's like the Americas, right? Yeah, I like Graham.”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
Total Recall
Paul Verhoeven
“Minority Report Total Recall Adjustment Bureau. Total Recall was his too.”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
Minority Report
Steven Spielberg
“Minority Report Total Recall Adjustment Bureau.”— Jamie (production)
ProductReferenced
Dramamine
Prestige Consumer Healthcare
“Dramamine is oral antihistamine called dimethylhydronate while scopolamine is a different prescription only anti-coleric medicine particularly in patch form used to prevent motion sickness.”— Jamie (production)
ProductReferenced
Adderall
Teva
“I know a lot of journalists who love Adderall. They might not even say they love Adderall, but they love Adderall. I know they do it all the time.”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Ozempic
Novo Nordisk
“if Ozempic helps you, like fuck it, I'm for whatever helps you, man. I think if you're a morbidly obese person, one of the things”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Peloton
Peloton
“I'm going to do a Peloton workout every day for a month. You'll lose 20 pounds that month, right?”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Strassman says it took 16 years to write his prophecy book and learn Hebrew along the way.
- Strassman concludes early Hebrew Bible events happened in a separate, DMT-like level of reality that gradually segued into ours.
- Both agree AI may be the 'Messiah', a new life form humans are giving birth to, not a person.
- Strassman recounts being laid upon body-to-body during an ibogaine session, mirroring the biblical resurrection of Elisha.
- Strassman states he genuinely believes giants (Nephilim) physically existed.
- The DMT study was funded by the war on drugs, they pitched DMT as 'dangerous' rather than 'great' to get money.
- Strassman reveals he nearly died of C. diff and wrote a book ('Joseph Levy Escapes Death') about it.
- Rogan says DMT 'paused' his fascination with UFOs because nothing is as crazy as the DMT state.
Worth remembering
- The acacia bush releases DMT when burned and grows in the Sinai region, with companion plants containing the beta-carbolines that make ayahuasca orally active.
- The Hebrew words for 'bush' and 'Sinai' share the same three-letter root.
- Per the text, the first thing Noah did after the flood was plant a vineyard and get drunk.
- Strassman submitted his DMT study paperwork in Sept 1988 and gave the first dose in Nov 1990; the high dose was 0.4 mg/kg IV bolus.
- One ibogaine dose reportedly stops roughly 80%+ of users from returning to their addiction.
- A biblical line is read as God capping human lifespan at 120 years, enough time to repent.
- In 'Coyote America,' coyotes spread because persecution triggers females to produce more pups (a 'roll call' effect).
- Rogan cites studies showing exercise can be more effective than SSRIs as an antidepressant.
- Scopolamine ('Devil's Breath'), the active compound in jimson/loco weed, is used in motion-sickness patches but can cause amnesia and brain damage.
- They note humanity may have crashed to a few thousand people ~70,000 years ago after the Toba super-volcano.
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