David Holthouse: Investigative journalist and documentary filmmaker, director of the Peacock series 'Krishnas' and 'Sasquatch'; a survivor of childhood sexual assault who reports from conflict zones.
What this episode covers
Holthouse details the dark 1970s-80s chapter of the Hari Krishna movement at the New Vrindaban commune in West Virginia, where guru Kirtanananda (Keith Ham) ordered murders, ran cash scams, and molested children. The conversation pivots to his recent reporting trip inside wartime Ukraine, where he became convinced the US should fully arm Ukraine against Putin, and warns nuclear escalation feels plausible. He and Rogan explore psychedelics at length, including DMT, the stoned ape theory, and Holthouse's belief in karma and reincarnation. Holthouse recounts witnessing the 1990s Phoenix Lights, describing a massive silent craft, and the two speculate about UFOs, AI as a possible successor species, and government secrecy.
The guest's own work
Krishnas
David Holthouse
“you made another awesome one man this uh the krishna's one oh my God there is something about these cult documentaries”— Joe Rogan
Krishnas
David Holthouse
“so there's a production company marware Junction and they had actually sold this show to Peacock and they uh were looking for a director”— guest
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Holy Hell
Will Allen
“it was owned by a cult and there's a documentary on them called holy hell okay and it's the same sort of deal”— Joe Rogan
Tucker Carlson interview with Putin
Tucker Carlson
“I mean I watched that Tucker Carlson interview right yeah and that history lesson that that he delivered at the beginning”— guest
Neuralink
Neuralink
“you've already seen this guy who they um the first neuralink patient have you seen this yeah so this first guy who's paralyzed um with neuralink”— Joe Rogan
Star Trek
“it seemed like we could get to Star Trek right it seemed like we could maybe get there right even Star Trek fight Klingons”— guest
DMT: The Spirit Molecule
Rick Strassman
“that's all Rick stman who wrote that book DMT the spirit molecules talked about that and they've done a lot of great research”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Holthouse filmed an ancient ritual using the ashes of Charles St Dennis (Chakradhari), murdered on Kirtanananda's orders for calling out his hypocrisy.
- Kirtanananda sent female devotees to rock concerts and races to raise cash, depositing it in $9,900 increments to dodge reporting requirements.
- The murders were exposed when enforcer Thomas Dresser (Tirtha) flipped after the 'Winnebago incident' where Kirtanananda was witnessed sodomizing a child.
- Holthouse's father died while he was in a Ukraine war zone; he sent final messages via Signal that nurses read aloud and recorded a voice memo as his father was dying.
- His time in Ukraine turned him into a hawk who believes the US must fully arm Ukraine, though not with US troops.
- He believes Putin intends to take all of Ukraine and will not stop, raising the risk of confrontation with a NATO country.
- Holthouse witnessed the Phoenix Lights: a massive, silent, battleship-scale tubular craft at low altitude that vanished without a sound.
- He claims to have evidence the US DOJ has been used by the State Department to advance foreign policy by charging or clearing Ukrainians.
Worth remembering
- Hari Krishna is rooted in the Vedas, whose written form is at least 3,500 years old, far predating Christianity.
- Founder Prabhupada arrived in Greenwich Village in 1965 and the movement took off; George Harrison's 'My Sweet Lord' is about Krishna Consciousness.
- In Vrindavan, India, trained monkeys steal tourists' belongings and will only return them in exchange for mango packs from street vendors.
- Studies show people on psilocybin detect deviation from parallel lines faster, supporting the stoned ape theory's link to better hunting.
- One of the biggest mysteries in the species record is the doubling of human brain size over two million years, which McKenna tied to mushroom use.
- The Aleutian Islands of Alaska were attacked and occupied by Japanese forces in World War II.
- Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994 in exchange for US and UK guarantees to protect its sovereign territory.
- A university in Israel theorized Moses's burning bush was a DMT experience from the DMT-rich acacia tree.
- DMT occurs naturally in the human body, so testing for it would make everyone 'guilty' since everyone alive has it.
- Neuralink's first paralyzed patient can move a cursor and play video games with his mind.