The guest
Maynard James Keenan: Singer of Tool, A Perfect Circle, and Puscifer; founder and winemaker of Caduceus Cellars and Merkin Vineyards in Arizona, plus restaurants and a coffee venture.
What this episode covers
Maynard James Keenan joins Joe Rogan for a wide-ranging conversation that starts with their shared obsession with Brazilian jiu-jitsu and the lessons it teaches about discipline, listening, and self-control. Maynard explains how the same beginner's-mind approach drives his songwriting with Puscifer and his demanding life as a winemaker in Arizona. A long stretch dives deep into the economics, terroir, and logistics of running multiple vineyards, restaurants, and a coffee roaster while still touring. They riff on technology, TikTok's data harvesting, urban life versus small-town living, farming, and night-sky stargazing. The episode closes with an extended breakdown of recent UFC, ADCC, and boxing events, ending with plans to attend a live fight together.
Recommended on this episode
ProductRecommended
Reverse Hyper
Louie Simmons / Westside Barbell
“I can't recommend that machine enough”
“if you don't want to ever have issues I can't recommend that machine enough phenomenal for right back”— Joe Rogan
ProductRecommended
Black Rifle Coffee
Black Rifle Coffee Company (Evan Hafer)
“I've gotten really into this”
“I've gotten really into this is this is black Rubble yeah well then I gotta yeah sorry brother I didn't know it was yours”— Joe Rogan
BookRecommended
The Immortality Key
Brian Muraresku
“the book is really fascinating”
“the book is really fascinating because he's he was obsessed with this for decades and studied it for a long time”— Joe Rogan
The guest's own work
ProductBy the guest
Caduceus Cellars
Maynard James Keenan
“caduceus.org is our is our website you can go buy it off of caduceus.org and we ship to Most states”— Maynard James Keenan
MediaBy the guest
Existential Reckoning
Puscifer
“I just I just released uh The Tool album and then on the heels of that I released the Puscifer existential Reckoning”— Maynard James Keenan
MediaBy the guest
Money Shot
Puscifer
“Billy D in the Hall of feathered serpents was all of the money shot album and all the Luchador stuff that we've shot at the Mayan Theater”— Maynard James Keenan
MediaBy the guest
Billy D in the Hall of Feathered Serpents
Puscifer
“we did um Billy D in the Hall of feathered serpents was all of the money shot album and all the Luchador stuff”— Maynard James Keenan
MediaBy the guest
Conditions of My Parole
Puscifer
“we did conditions of My Parole the whole album called parole violator so it's a bunch of stuff that's got Billy D and major douche”— Maynard James Keenan
MediaBy the guest
Parole Violator
Puscifer
“the whole album called parole violator so it's a bunch of stuff that's got Billy D and major douche and a bunch of the characters Hildy”— Maynard James Keenan
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
BookReferenced
The Emperor Wears No Clothes
Jack Herer
“Jack Herer the guy who wrote The Emperor has no clothes like that that guy was a like a Goldwater Republican”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
Black Mirror
Charlie Brooker
“there's a really wild one with Miley Cyrus and in this one she has like this evil aunt who's like controlling her career”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
The Walking Dead
“that's where the old the um The Walking Dead goes sideways when people are like just not taking care of each other”— Maynard James Keenan
MediaReferenced
Talladega Nights
“how many times can I watch Talladega Nights many more to be honest I'm going to watch that many more times”— Maynard James Keenan
MediaReferenced
Sour Grapes
“did you ever see the documentary sour grapes yeah wild right yeah that guy was amazing crazy”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
The Prisoner
The Prisoner Wine Company
“you're familiar with the the wine The Prisoner no okay you know the prisoner oh the one that has like the uh mug shots”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Penfolds
Penfolds
“I was with Peter Gago from uh pen folds they were doing a whole pen folds Australian wine uh dinner at the Australian consulate's house”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Fairlight CMI
Fairlight
“he picked up a bunch of amazing old synths like fairlight and synclavia and all this kind of cool”— Maynard James Keenan
ProductReferenced
Synclavier
New England Digital
“he picked up a bunch of amazing old synths like fairlight and synclavia and all this kind of cool”— Maynard James Keenan
ProductReferenced
Subaru Brat
Subaru
“punch a hole through space and time and pop in up in Australia in half a second it's coming just need a Subaru Brat man you'll get there”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Toyota FJ40 Land Cruiser
Toyota
“yeah I have a I have a an old uh 73 FJ oh yeah those are the best yeah fj40 yep”— Maynard James Keenan
ProductReferenced
Icon 4x4 FJ40
Icon 4x4
“those are beautiful cars man those fj40s like icon out of uh California makes those where they they do the the V8 swap”— Joe Rogan
ProductReferenced
Berocca
Berocca
“the old school uh British you know Baraka if I have to what's that it's like a fizzy like vitamin C multivitamin”— Maynard James Keenan
ProductReferenced
UFC Fight Pass
UFC
“he gave me the link to it I have a Fight Pass membership but that's how we watched it but it was such a good fight”— Maynard James Keenan
ProductReferenced
Apple TV
Apple
“it's almost like for me it's like I'm turning my brain off with my Apple TV I'm just gonna zone out”— Maynard James Keenan
MediaReferenced
Jolene
Dolly Parton
“she covered Jolene you know I heard that song Like Jesus like there's a soul to that girl's voice that yeah belies her age”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Joe strongly endorses the reverse hyper machine, invented by powerlifter Louie Simmons, for decompressing and strengthening the lower back.
- Maynard breaks down vineyard economics: roughly $30k per acre to plant, no fruit for four years, and no first dollar for six to seven years.
- Maynard reveals he employs around 110 families across his Arizona wineries, vineyards, store, and restaurants.
- He explains that 95% of Caduceus wine is wild fermentation kick-started by native yeast already on the grapes.
- They recount reading TikTok's terms of service on the podcast; Maynard deleted it and a listener's mom made her son delete it too.
- Maynard explains the hugely popular wine The Prisoner was largely blended bulk wine, not estate-grown.
- Maynard promotes two Puscifer pay-per-views (Billy D in the Hall of Feathered Serpents and Parole Violator) shot during lockdown.
Worth remembering
- Maynard explains terroir: soil geology, moisture, weather patterns, and grape clone all shape a wine's signature for a region.
- He learned gi jiu-jitsu from Jean-Jacques Machado, a black belt who has only one hand and built his game around hooks and clinch.
- The best pasta flour is Italian-milled but contains a significant amount of hard winter wheat grown in Arizona.
- A recent study found about 80% of people tested had glyphosate (Roundup) in their bodies; Maynard stopped using it in his vineyards.
- Maynard's wife is a licensed falconer with a hawk named Loki used to chase squirrels and rabbits from the vineyards.
- A single hailstorm can wipe out half a vineyard, leaving vines producing no grapes for up to three years.
- He references a report that feeding the Fibonacci sequence into a quantum computer produced behavior like two directions of time.
- They watch footage of Mikey Musumeci taking Imanari's back, which Maynard cites as his favorite example of jiu-jitsu artistry.
- Maynard lives in Jerome, Arizona (population ~500), which has light-pollution ordinances allowing clear Milky Way views.
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