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Tim Ferriss · 2024-05-19

Dr. Gabor Maté and Dr. BJ Miller — The Tim Ferriss Show

A Tim Ferriss anniversary super-combo pairing trauma expert Dr. Gabor Mate with hospice physician Dr. BJ Miller on healing, addiction, and dying well.

Dr. Gabor Maté and Dr. BJ Miller — The Tim Ferriss Show
The guest

Dr. Gabor Mate and Dr. BJ Miller: Two featured guests: Dr. Gabor Mate, addiction and trauma expert and bestselling author (In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, When the Body Says No, The Myth of Normal); and Dr. BJ Miller, hospice and palliative care physician, triple amputee, and speaker whose TED Talk on end-of-life has 17M+ views.

What this episode covers

This is a 10-year/1-billion-download anniversary compilation episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, curated from over 700 episodes, pairing two of Tim's favorite guests. Dr. Gabor Mate reframes trauma as the disconnection that happens inside you rather than the events themselves, explains 'compassionate inquiry,' and details healing modalities from somatic work and EMDR to yoga and psychedelics including his ayahuasca awakening. Dr. BJ Miller, who lost three limbs to an electrical accident as a Princeton sophomore, describes the Zen Hospice Project, palliative care versus hospice, and how attending to death teaches you to live by prizing simple sensory moments. Both guests converge on themes of purposelessness, presence, the therapeutic power of small things, and the promise of psychedelics for existential distress.

Recommended on this episode

ProductRecommended

Inner Engineering

Sadhguru (Isha Foundation)

“everybody has been only being grateful so I can highly recommend it”
“the one I learned is called inner engineering and it's taught by either sguru or his followers when I recommend it to France and others everybody has been only being grateful so I can highly recommend it”— Gabor Maté
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Radical Acceptance

Tara Brach

“that I found very very particularly helpful to me in this in this instance”
“there's a book with a very Bland title called radical acceptance by Tara Brock that I found very very particularly helpful to me in this in this instance”— BJ Miller
MediaRecommended

Grizzly Man

Werner Herzog

“I think it's a be like an amazing piece of film making”
“the movie Grizzly man oh man oh man yeah I think it's a be like an amazing piece of film making and I also particularly like its pency”— BJ Miller
MediaRecommended

Waiting for Guffman

Christopher Guest

“I have a real soft spot for waiting for guffman ... I just think it's hilarious”
“I have a real soft spot for waiting for guffman not that it has this great meaning per se but by speaking of absurdity I just think it's hilarious”— BJ Miller
ProductRecommended

Joseph Swan Pinot Noir

Joseph Swan Vineyards

“I've gotten a lot of miles out of a beautiful bottle of wine not just for the taste and the buzz but the symbolism”
“I would probably point us to a beautiful Pino Noir from Joseph Swan up in somoma County I've gotten a lot of miles out of a beautiful bottle of wine”— BJ Miller

The guest's own work

BookBy the guestISBN verified

The 4-Hour Workweek

Tim Ferriss

“in the early 2000s when I was running my own e-commerce business I tell that story in the 4-Hour Work week but the tools then were absolutely atrocious”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts

Gabor Maté

“Gabor is an addiction and Trauma expert and bestselling author of in the realm of hungry ghosts when the body says no and the myth of normal”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guest

When the Body Says No

Gabor Maté

“bestselling author of in the realm of hungry ghosts when the body says no and the myth of normal trauma illness and healing in a toxic culture”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guest

The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness and Healing in a Toxic Culture

Gabor Maté

“author of in the realm of hungry ghosts when the body says no and the myth of normal trauma illness and healing in a toxic culture”— Tim Ferriss

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

BookReferencedISBN verified

Waking the Tiger

Peter Levine

“my friend Peter LaVine and his somatic experiencing waking the tiger waking the tiger was his first book and he's written many wonderful books since then”— Gabor Maté
MediaReferenced

This Is Spinal Tap

Rob Reiner

“this movie is by Christopher Guest and Company the guys who did spinal tap and oh wow you know Best in Show”— BJ Miller
MediaReferenced

Best in Show

Christopher Guest

“the guys who did spinal tap and oh wow you know Best in Show sure sure how do you say guffman”— BJ Miller
MediaReferenced

The Kentucky Fried Movie

John Landis

“as a kid growing up Kentucky Fried Movie my God I haven't thought about that in decades we watched it probably I don't know a hundred times”— BJ Miller
MediaReferenced

The Groove Tube

Ken Shapiro

“that and Groove Tube I mean it was you know formative for us”— BJ Miller
MediaReferenced

Ratatouille

Pixar

“if they wanted to watch a movie what would you put in front of them man there's so many good ones oh Ratatouille”— BJ Miller

Big reveals from this episode

  • Gabor Mate redefines trauma: 'the trauma is not what happens to you, the trauma is of what happens inside you' resulting in disconnection from emotions and body.
  • Mate introduces 'trauma of omission' where good things that should have happened didn't, causing disconnection even when parents loved you.
  • Mate recounts his first ayahuasca ceremony in a Vancouver tent with 50 people where tears of love flowed and he saw how he'd closed his heart against love.
  • Mate runs Tim through a live 'compassionate inquiry' exercise, exposing how Tim defaulted to the worst interpretation that a contractor 'didn't care or respect' him.
  • BJ Miller tells the full story of losing three limbs to 'the Dinky' commuter train at Princeton when electricity arced to his metal watch in November 1990.
  • Miller's snowball story: a nurse smuggled a snowball into his sterile burn unit, making him realize humans are 'feeling machines' and everything changes.
  • Miller explains 'existential suffering' as palliative care's 'diagnosis of exclusion' and why psychedelics like psilocybin and MDMA may finally address it.
  • Miller shares his daily exercise of projecting assumed success and well-wishing onto strangers, including homeless people, inverting how society judges them.

Worth remembering

  • Mate explains yoga originally meant 'Unity' and was not merely physical, intended to regain unity with self and creation.
  • Mate says a psychedelic session can feel 'like 10 years of psychotherapy in one day' when done with adept practitioners.
  • As an infant in WWII Budapest, Mate's mother gave him to a stranger in the street to save his life and didn't see him for a month.
  • Miller clarifies all hospice is palliative care but not all palliative care is hospice; palliative care pursues quality of life with no time limit.
  • At Zen Hospice the staff perform a flower-petal ceremony, sprinkling the body and singing as it leaves, versus the cold rush of a typical hospital death.
  • Miller estimates he has witnessed approaching a thousand deaths in his career.
  • Miller was flown to St. Barnabas Hospital, New Jersey's only burn unit, after surgeons performed a fasciotomy to release heat from burning tissue.
  • Miller's motorcycle was modified with an Aprilia Mana clutchless transmission, spliced front/rear brakes into one lever, and all controls moved to his right hand.
  • The man who converted Miller's motorcycle, Randy, later became his patient and a resident at Zen Hospice Project.
  • Miller's favorite bumper sticker, which he'd put on a billboard: 'Don't believe everything you think.'