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Tim Ferriss · 2021-06-03

Suleika Jaouad - Invaluable Road Trips, the To-Feel List, and Artistic Homes | The Tim Ferriss Show

Writer Suleika Jaouad on surviving leukemia, a 15,000-mile solo road trip, journaling rituals, and learning to live in the in-between.

Suleika Jaouad - Invaluable Road Trips, the To-Feel List, and Artistic Homes | The Tim Ferriss Show
The guest

Suleika Jaouad: New York Times best-selling author of the memoir Between Two Kingdoms and writer of the Emmy-winning Times column and video series Life Interrupted. She is the creator of The Isolation Journals, a community creative project, and a leukemia survivor.

What this episode covers

Suleika Jaouad traces her path from a misfit, multilingual childhood and Juilliard-bound bassist to dropping out of high school, getting into Princeton, and pursuing writing. About a year after college she was diagnosed with aggressive leukemia and spent four years in treatment, turning a 100-day journaling project into a New York Times column. After being declared cured, she struggled with the myth of 'moving on,' a PTSD diagnosis, and the wilderness of survivorship. To heal, she learned to drive at 27 and took a 15,000-mile solo cross-country road trip to visit strangers who had written to her, and she shares the journaling practices and 'to-feel list' she still uses today.

Recommended on this episode

ProductRecommended

Helix Sleep mattresses

Helix Sleep

“which i've been using since 2017 i have two of them upstairs from where i'm sitting at this moment”
“you've probably heard me talk about helix sleep and their mattresses which i've been using since 2017 i have two of them upstairs”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Fault in Our Stars

John Green

“that was a really important book for me and not only because it held all the kind of nuances of that experience”
“the first book of that genre that i read was the fault in our stars which is about two teenagers who fall in love and die at the end”— Suleika Jaouad
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Autobiography of a Face

Lucy Grealy

“i was really struck by that book especially later as i began to emerge from cancer treatment”
“i read that your true quote unquote sick girl bible was lucy greeley's autobiography of a face is that accurate”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Artist's Way Morning Pages Journal

Julia Cameron

“the practice of morning pages is really to provide spiritual windshield wipers, being vulnerable i find to be tremendously therapeutic”
“to my left about a foot and a half away is a copy of the morning pages journal the artist's way morning pages journal by julia cameron”— Tim Ferriss

The guest's own work

BookBy the guestISBN verified

Between Two Kingdoms

Suleika Jaouad

“she is the author of the new york times best-selling memoir between two kingdoms she wrote the emmy award-winning new york times column”— Tim Ferriss

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

BookReferenced

War and Peace

Leo Tolstoy

“i packed war and peace thinking to myself this is one of those books that i've never read and this is finally you know the time to actually read it”— Suleika Jaouad
BookReferencedISBN verified

The Cancer Journals

Audre Lorde

“a few of the books that have come up i'm going to mispronounce this is it audrey lords the cancer journals john green's the fault in our stars”— Tim Ferriss
MediaReferenced

Grey's Anatomy

“i was busy setting the world record for the number of grey's anatomy episodes watched consecutively so that's what i did for my first couple of months”— Suleika Jaouad
BookReferencedISBN verified

Speak, Memory

Vladimir Nabokov

“i remember reading in particular speak memory by vladimir nabokov and trying to write in his style and of course doing it probably very poorly”— Suleika Jaouad
BookReferencedISBN verified

Illness as Metaphor

Susan Sontag

“the title between two kingdoms comes from an observation in is it susan sontag's illness as metaphor quote everyone who is born holds dual citizenship”— Tim Ferriss
MediaReferenced

The Painter and the Thief

“there's a documentary i believe the title is the artist and the thief that showcases an example of that”— Tim Ferriss

Big reveals from this episode

  • She reported a story for New York Times Magazine on a prison hospice in a maximum-security prison, staffed by fellow prisoners caring for the dying; one man she profiled, Fernando Murillo, was later released partly because of that story.
  • About a year after graduating college she was diagnosed with an aggressive form of leukemia, fracturing her life into a before and an after.
  • After standard chemotherapy failed, her only options became experimental clinical trials, which she found more devastating than the diagnosis itself.
  • A doctor she was interviewing for a story told her she had post-traumatic stress disorder, a revelation since she'd thought PTSD was only for war veterans.
  • To heal, she first confronted a smaller fear by learning to drive, which grew into the dream of a solo cross-country road trip.
  • She built her road-trip itinerary from a wooden box of letters sent by about 22 strangers who had responded to her column.
  • When a New York Times editor offered her an essay, she declined and instead pitched a weekly column with a video component, written from the trenches of treatment without knowing how her story would end.
  • She calls the 100-day, ~15,000-mile road trip the best decision she's ever made in her life.

Worth remembering

  • Her defining childhood experience was being a misfit in every culture; between ages 2 and 12 she lived in Switzerland, Tunisia, and the US and attended five or six schools.
  • In Morocco she asked for bread using the Tunisian word 'taboona,' which turned out to be a derogatory term for part of the female anatomy.
  • At age eight she deliberately chose the upright bass as a secondary instrument because it would inconvenience her parents the most, then fell in love with it.
  • At 16 she dropped out of high school, took free classes at Skidmore College where her dad taught, and was admitted early decision to Princeton without a high school diploma.
  • During her first months of treatment she set what she joked was a world record for consecutive Grey's Anatomy episodes watched.
  • Post-treatment imprints included a chest port, scars, infertility from chemotherapy, extreme fatigue, and a compromised immune system from a bone marrow transplant.
  • Her doctors told her she had about a 35 percent chance of long-term survival around the time she pitched the column.
  • The first five minutes of her road trip were terrifying because she accidentally drove the wrong way down a one-way avenue in midtown Manhattan.
  • Before her daily to-do list she writes a 'to-feel list,' a habit from when illness left her only about three hours of usable energy per day.
  • Her billboard message would be the epigraph of her book, a line from Cervantes: 'until death it is all life.'