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Tim Ferriss · 2025-02-21

Whether or Not to Have Kids, Transformative Experiences, and More — L.A. Paul

Philosopher L.A. Paul explains why life-changing decisions like having kids can't be calculated rationally, and which books unlock philosophy.

Whether or Not to Have Kids, Transformative Experiences, and More — L.A. Paul
The guest

L.A. Paul: Yale philosopher working in metaphysics, epistemology, and philosophy of science; author of Transformative Experience, known for the 'transformative experience' framework about decisions like having children.

What this episode covers

Tim Ferriss interviews philosopher L.A. Paul about her concept of transformative experience: choices like becoming a parent that change who you are so fundamentally you can't rationally evaluate them beforehand. Paul recounts her unconventional path into philosophy, from failing to progress in early philosophy classes and a chemistry-lab crisis to a chance airport pickup of philosopher Quentin Smith and a pay-by-mail correspondence apprenticeship with established philosophers. She unpacks her vampire thought experiment to illustrate why testimony from those who've crossed the threshold doesn't help you decide, and how this 'violation of act-state independence' breaks standard rational-choice models. The conversation ranges across accessible entry points to philosophy (Ted Chiang, Borges, time-travel films), psychedelics and altered states, and Paul's own anticipation of cognitive decline as a transformative experience to be met with Buddhist-style detachment.

Recommended on this episode

BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Felt Meanings of the World

Quentin Smith

“which I always loved”
“Quentin Smith wrote this very weird book called The Felt Meanings of the World, which I always loved. It's weird.”— L.A. Paul
MediaRecommended

Arrival

Denis Villeneuve

“If people want a light lift... watch the movie Arrival”
“If people want a light lift and it is different from the short story upon which it's based, but watch the movie Arrival.”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Garden of Forking Paths

Jorge Luis Borges

“The Garden of Forking Paths is an excellent one”
“The Garden of Forking Paths is an excellent one if we're talking about possibilities. The Garden of Forking Paths is like it's a beautiful one.”— L.A. Paul
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Aleph

Jorge Luis Borges

“two really excellent things to read”
“The Aleph, I would suggest. I actually think The Garden of Forking Paths and I think it's The Aleph are two really excellent things to read.”— L.A. Paul
MediaRecommended

Primer

Shane Carruth

“I recommend Primer or La Jetee or 12 Monkeys”
“you watch a time travel film. I recommend Primer or La Jetee or 12 Monkeys”— L.A. Paul
MediaRecommended

La Jetee

Chris Marker

“I recommend Primer or La Jetee or 12 Monkeys”
“you watch a time travel film. I recommend Primer or La Jetee or 12 Monkeys”— L.A. Paul
MediaRecommended

12 Monkeys

Terry Gilliam

“I recommend Primer or La Jetee or 12 Monkeys”
“you watch a time travel film. I recommend Primer or La Jetee or 12 Monkeys”— L.A. Paul
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The View from Nowhere

Thomas Nagel

“The View from Nowhere is a beautiful book. That might be a place to go.”
“I think Thomas Nagel's work is really really great. The View from Nowhere is a is a beautiful book. That might be a place to go.”— L.A. Paul

The guest's own work

BookBy the guestISBN verified

Transformative Experience

L.A. Paul

“who gave me a copy of your book, Transformative Experience. And that was my my personal experience of reading some of the examples”— Tim Ferriss

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

BookReferenced

Being and Time

Martin Heidegger

“you should read Martin Heidegger's Being and Time to start because that's all about the nature of the self and time”— L.A. Paul
BookReferencedISBN verified

Open Socrates: The Case for a Philosophical Life

Agnes Callard

“I'm just going to use this moment to give a shout-out to Agnes Callard who you should absolutely interview, who has a new book on this”— L.A. Paul
BookReferencedISBN verified

Stories of Your Life and Others

Ted Chiang

“It's always hard for me to remember the first one, but it's like Stories of Our Lives and Other Short Stories, something like that”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferencedISBN verified

Exhalation

Ted Chiang

“And then his second collection came out, Exhalation, and I was like, Ah, it's just going to There's no way it can match the first collection”— Tim Ferriss
MediaReferenced

Back to the Future

Robert Zemeckis

“Or if you watch Back to the Future and you're like, Well, wait a minute. You know, how can you change the past?”— L.A. Paul
BookReferencedISBN verified

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

Lewis Carroll

“Lewis Carroll, another excellent thing to read... I have some collector's editions of old copies of Alice in Wonderland.”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferenced

Epistemology: A Very Short Introduction

Jennifer Nagel

“There are also various epistemology, a very short introduction. I think Jennifer Nagel wrote that.”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferenced

Seven Nights

Jorge Luis Borges

“One was Seven Nights, Siete Noches, a collection of lectures that he gave in Buenos Aires in 1977”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferenced

Aspiration: The Agency of Becoming

Agnes Callard

“She also wrote Aspiration, The Agency of Becoming in 2018.”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferencedISBN verified

Heart of Darkness

Joseph Conrad

“You have, I believe, a quote in your book from Conrad's Heart of Darkness.”— Tim Ferriss

Big reveals from this episode

  • Paul argues philosophy's role is not just teaching how to think but uncovering the most fundamental truths about human beings and the nature of the world.
  • Paul introduces her signature vampire thought experiment: Dracula offers a one-time, irreversible chance to become a vampire, used to illustrate transformative experience.
  • The key insight: friends who became vampires say it's wonderful but that you 'can't possibly understand' it as a human, so their testimony can't guide your choice.
  • Transformative experiences mean you choose for a future self whose preferences may be radically different from your current self, by definition.
  • Paul names the technical core: transformative choices violate 'act-state independence,' a foundational axiom of rational choice theory, so standard expected-value models break down.
  • Paul's 'unpopular solution': reframe the decision as 'which life do I want to find out about?' rather than trying to compute its value.
  • Paul reveals her own most-feared coming transformative experience is cognitive decline (Alzheimer's/dementia) and death, which she's grappling with via Buddhist detachment.
  • Paul agrees psychedelics produce a transformative, 'ontological shock' that reveals how much the brain constructs our perceived reality.

Worth remembering

  • Quentin Smith advised Paul to read widely and pay philosophers a 'modest sum' to correspond with her about her work.
  • Paul offered each of three philosophers a $250 personal check to reply to her letters and comment on her paper; she mailed at least 20 typewritten pages every two weeks for months.
  • Of the three philosophers she offered checks to, only one actually cashed it.
  • Quentin Smith told Paul, after picking him up from the airport, to read Heidegger's 'Being and Time' to start studying philosophy.
  • Paul went to Princeton for her PhD and was a teaching assistant for Gideon Rosen, the same professor whose class Tim Ferriss remembers from Princeton 25+ years later.
  • Paul jokingly considered hanging a shingle in her funky Brooklyn neighborhood offering paid sessions on transformative experiences and big life choices.
  • Paul abandoned chemistry after a 'gravimetric analysis' lab where brushing the side of a clay pot with finger oil destroyed an entire semester's work.
  • Paul says the film Arrival (95%+ on Rotten Tomatoes) is based on Ted Chiang's short story.
  • Paul recommends the 35-minute French film 'La Jetee,' noting 12 Monkeys essentially retold the same story.
  • Paul's PhD supervisor was David Lewis at Princeton, who developed the primary 'rule book' (semantics) for understanding counterfactuals.