Paul Stamets: Mycologist, founder of Fungi Perfecti / Host Defense, author and researcher who built the world's largest Agarikon culture library and runs citizen-science microdosing studies.
What this episode covers
Paul Stamets returns to discuss his COVID-19 clinical trial showing that Agarikon and Turkey Tail mushroom mycelium reduced adverse effects of mRNA vaccines and extended antibody response six months out. He warns of converging viral pandemics driven by factory farming, citing the bird flu jump to cattle, and argues old-growth forests are genomic libraries vital to biodefense. He details his microdose.me citizen-science study, where the 'Stamets Stack' of psilocybin, Lion's Mane, and niacin produced a statistically significant jump in finger-tapping psychomotor performance. The conversation turns to amanita muscaria and pantherina experiences, the legality and democratization of psilocybin, and mushroom imagery in Egyptian and Mesoamerican history. Throughout, Stamets connects fungi to immunity, neurogenesis, forgiveness, and the freedom of consciousness.
Recommended on this episode
Lion's Mane
“it seems like mushrooms can help you quite a bit I I'm a big fan of lion's man I take Lions man every day”— Joe Rogan
The guest's own work
Host Defense
Fungi Perfecti / Paul Stamets
“How long have you had this company host defense I've started the host defense brand about 2004 is what I started”— Paul Stamets
Host Defense throat spray (Agarikon + Turkey Tail)
Host Defense / Paul Stamets
“I take a throat spray which has a Gana turkey tail in it I love it that's what I use all the time when I go to concerts and in crowds”— Paul Stamets
Stamets Stack (psilocybin + Lion's Mane mycelium + niacin)
Paul Stamets
“the green line is people taking the stamina stack which is cilos census approximately 1/10th of a dried gram 500 milligrams of Lies made melium and 50 milligrams of flushing niin”— Paul Stamets
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Dune (Dune 2)
Frank Herbert
“have you seen Dune 2 I have not I heard it's awesome amazing Frank Herbert was a friend of mine who wrote dune”— Paul Stamets
Mushrooms, Russia and History
Valentina Wasson and R. Gordon Wasson
“they wrote a book mushrooms Russian history was going to be a cookbook of 500 recipes and it became this great ethnological exploration”— Paul Stamets
Tales from the Crypt
“if you wrote read watch Tales from the Crypt or some witnessed something violent because you went but when you reem you enact”— Paul Stamets
Big reveals from this episode
- A double-blind placebo-controlled COVID trial found Agarikon plus Turkey Tail reduced adverse vaccine effects and extended antibody response six months out.
- Bird flu has jumped from birds to cattle in six US states for the first time in history, raising fears it could reach pigs and then humans.
- Estimated human mortality from h5n1 bird flu is up to 70 percent, versus roughly 0.1 percent for COVID.
- The Stamets Stack took microdosers from 48 to 68 finger taps in ten seconds in one month, a statistically significant psychomotor gain.
- A new psilocybin species, Psilocybe stametsii, was discovered in Ecuador and named after Paul Stamets.
- A member of Billy Graham's 'council of 12' privately thanked Stamets, saying many came to their Christian faith through psilocybin.
- Of about 60 terminal-illness patients in the Roots to Thrive psilocybin program, only four have died over three years.
Worth remembering
- Stamets holds the world's largest culture library of Agarikon, with 107 strains isolated and 95 whole-genome sequenced.
- Penicillin was scaled up thanks to Mary Hunt finding a moldy cantaloupe in Peoria producing six times more penicillin, plus corn steep liquor as medium.
- There are an estimated 2 to 20 million fungal species; about 1 percent are poisonous, 1 percent choice edible, and 1 percent psychoactive.
- The word 'berserk' comes from Norse Berserkers who allegedly drank amanita muscaria brew before battle.
- Amanita muscaria and pantherina can cause repetitive motion syndrome, which Stamets says explains some uncontrolled violent behavior.
- Stamets registered fungi.com himself in 1992 for 28 dollars, and built his company packing 30,000 boxes before hiring an employee.
- Stamets predicts psilocybin will move from Schedule One to Schedule Three or Two within about five years, likely after the election.
- Stamets argues mushroom hieroglyphs appear on Egyptian temples paired with the Blue Lotus, suggesting an ancient Psilocybe-based elixir.
- The lethal dose of psilocybin mushrooms is estimated at around 38 pounds, effectively making fatal overdose impossible.