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Tim Ferriss · 2025-09-16

One of The Scariest Hackers I’ve Ever Met — Pablos Holman

Hacker-turned-inventor Pablos Holman on why hacking everything, sequencing energy first, and funding deep tech beats building more iPhone apps.

One of The Scariest Hackers I’ve Ever Met — Pablos Holman
The guest

Pablos Holman: Hacker, inventor, and deep-tech venture investor; early Blue Origin team member, alum of Nathan Myhrvold's Intellectual Ventures lab, author of 'Deep Future: Creating Technology That Matters.'

What this episode covers

Pablos Holman traces his path from reverse-engineering an Apple II alone in 1970s Alaska to becoming a 'hacker magician' who stole passwords and cracked RFID credit cards live on stage. He argues the hacker mindset, asking 'what can I make this do?' rather than 'what does this do?', should be applied beyond computers to humanity's biggest problems. As an investor he now hunts deep-tech breakthroughs that are 10x better than the state of the art, taking technical risk instead of market risk in trillion-dollar industries Silicon Valley ignores. Recurring themes include solving energy (especially fission reactors) first as the lead domino, self-sailing autonomous cargo ships, and the China-versus-US race in building real industries. He also reflects on long time horizons learned from Jeff Bezos, the value of community, and a 20-year obsession with salsa as reverse-engineered physical communication.

Recommended on this episode

MediaRecommended

Zero Effect

“totally good movie. It's a good movie. It's awesome. Go watch it. trust me, this one's good”
“Oh, totally good movie. It's a good movie. It's awesome. Go watch it. And I don't even watch movies, but trust me, this one's good.”— Pablos Holman
MediaRecommended

WarGames

“those are the two movies in the world to watch. Only defensible hacker movie ever”
“And War Games. Those are the two movies in the world to watch. War Games, the only defensible movie on hacking. Only defensible hacker movie ever.”— Pablos Holman
ProductRecommended

Oakley titanium frame glasses

Oakley

“These are the best glasses ever made, which is why I started wearing them”
“These are the best glasses ever made, which is why I started wearing them. they're made of titanium alloy. Oakley made them in their heyday.”— Pablos Holman

The guest's own work

BookBy the guest

Deep Future: Creating Technology That Matters

Pablos Holman

“So, I'm trying to pull from your book, which I've been devouring. Deep future, creating technology that matters. About threequarters of the way through.”— Tim Ferriss

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

BookReferencedISBN verified

Breakneck

“there was a book Tyler Cowan recommended. There's a book called Breakneck. one of my employees is reading it and recommended. He said it's an amazing page turner.”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferencedISBN verified

Cryptonomicon

Neal Stephenson

“Snow Crash, Metaverse. I mean, when did Cryptonomicon come out? Which I love.”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferencedISBN verified

Snow Crash

Neal Stephenson

“if you're any kind of nerd, Neil is a demigod. Snow Crash, Metaverse.”— Pablos Holman
ProductReferenced

Apple II

Apple

“I got one when I was like 9 years old. One of the first couple thousand Apple 2s ever made. So I had a computer in the cold”— Pablos Holman
ProductReferenced

Schlage locks

Schlage

“Schlage locks, the kind that you likely have in your front door, your house, can quickly be opened by banging a file down key with a small mallet.”— Tim Ferriss
ProductReferenced

AirSnort

“One of our buddies had made a tool called Air Snort to crack Wi-Fi. And we were cracking Wi-Fi and stealing passwords for fun.”— Pablos Holman
ProductReferenced

Nvidia GPUs

Nvidia

“All these hyperscalers have woken up this year to the fact that a chip from Nvidia needs a ton of energy and we've been burning gas to get it.”— Pablos Holman
ProductReferenced

Tesla

Tesla

“we have a team that's developing cargo ships that are autonomous. You duct tape a Tesla to the front and it can drive across an ocean.”— Pablos Holman

Big reveals from this episode

  • Holman demonstrated live hacks at the O'Reilly Emerging Tech Conference: spoofing caller ID to break into the AT&T voicemail of organizer Brady Forest, banging open Schlage door locks with a filed-down key, and forcing CNNMoney.com to load a fake story.
  • He read audience members' RFID-enabled credit card numbers on a projection screen using a merchant card reader he simply bought on eBay for $8, after months of failing to break the encryption.
  • He explains the zero-day exploit marketplace: a zero-click iPhone exploit is 'the most valuable thing in the world,' sold through brokers who vet exploits and sell almost exclusively to government three-letter agencies to avoid prosecution.
  • His deep-fission reactor company invented a Toyota-sized reactor buried a mile deep in a borehole, cooled passively by water pressure from gravity; the Department of Energy is pushing them to deploy the first reactors by July.
  • His investment thesis: all software companies combined make about $2 trillion/year against $100+ trillion global GDP, so Silicon Valley serves only ~2% of the economy and the other 98% (energy, shipping, durable goods, automotive) is his addressable market.
  • How he joined the team that became Blue Origin: Neal Stephenson emailed him about a lab going to space; he started helping with computer work, and they explored beaming power from the ground instead of using rockets.
  • The last project he worked on at Blue Origin was a craft with four repurposed Rolls-Royce jet engines mounted vertically as a quadcopter that flew like a UFO and did a vertical landing in the central Washington desert, after which the team committed to building a rocket.
  • He invested in 'nano confinement fusion,' a fringe approach causing fusion by putting deuterium together with carbon nanotubes, betting a small pre-seed check on a wild idea most physicists would dismiss.

Worth remembering

  • Holman got one of the first couple thousand Apple IIs ever made around age 9 in Alaska, because Apple courted the oil industry for early customers and his dad agreed to take one.
  • Hacker Samy Kamkar manipulated Google Maps traffic by sending fake phone-location data, making roads he was about to drive on appear jammed so they would clear out.
  • Skateboarder Rodney Mullen, who invented the ollie and modern street skating, grew up isolated on a rural Florida farm with just a patch of driveway cement, paralleling Holman's isolated Alaska childhood.
  • Doubling a ship's size only increases its drag by about 50%, which is why container ships keep getting bigger, but those giant ships clog ports.
  • Happy Meal toys take about 50 days to travel from China to Los Angeles, but only 14 of those days are actually on the water; the rest is spent waiting at port.
  • Holman's signature wraparound titanium glasses were made by Oakley in a Nevada factory that used 425,000 watts to cast a single pair of frames; the factory eventually blew up and no one will make glasses that way again.
  • A hacker named Major Malfunction in England learned, via a car maker's tech support, how to manipulate one brand's remote key fob to unlock any car from that manufacturer within range.
  • Jeff Bezos and Amazon run an invite-only annual conference called MARS (Machine learning, Automation, Robotics, Space) where five to ten Nobel laureates attend without even being put on stage.
  • Holman jokes the reason LLMs were invented was 'to put lawyers out of business,' citing Abu Dhabi already using AI to help draft legislation.
  • Commonwealth Fusion Systems' breakthrough was a new superconductor enabling the world's most powerful magnet for magnetic confinement; but there is only about enough tritium on Earth to fuel such a reactor once.