Shanna H. Swan: An environmental and reproductive epidemiologist known for research on declining sperm counts and the effects of phthalates and other endocrine-disrupting chemicals. She founded the Action Science Initiative and is behind the Netflix documentary 'Plastic Detox.'
What this episode covers
Swan returns to JRE five years after her first appearance to discuss her documentary 'Plastic Detox,' which followed six infertile couples who reduced their exposure to plastics and plasticizers over three months. She explains the difference between microplastics, plastics, and plasticizers (phthalates, BPA, PFAS), and how these chemicals disrupt hormones in both men and women. The conversation ranges across contaminated coffee makers, nonstick cookware, treated clothing and uniforms, glyphosate in food, fluoride and chlorine in water, and fish from polluted lakes. Swan brings Rogan a urine-testing kit and a box of non-toxic kitchen swaps, and argues that regulation is failing so individuals must protect themselves. Both lament how little public attention the issue gets despite parallels to wildlife population declines.
Recommended on this episode
Plastic Detox
Shanna H. Swan / Louie (director, inferred)
“One of the beautiful things about Netflix is that so many people have Netflix... I really do hope you're going to go on a bunch of other podcasts”— host
Million Marker
Million Marker
“the company called Million Marker that you're going to send your pee to, um they have a education program. And that's a lot of what they do, the testing and the education.”— guest
Zip Top
Zip Top
“bags that are safe, oven, freezer, microwave. It's called Zip Top. Yeah, they're silicone... food grade silicone is free of thalates and bisphenol, so Okay. You can use that.”— guest
Wowe (reusable bags)
Wowe
“these bags are called Wawi, w o w e... It's another food storage, you know, choice option... it's um cloth. But clean cloth... Like for bread, it's really good.”— guest
Defense Soap
Guy Sako (Defense Soap)
“it's an excellent product. It's called Defense Soap... a solution using healthy things like uh tea tree oil, eucalyptus in the soap that kills the bad bacteria but does nothing to the healthy flora”— host
The guest's own work
Plastic Detox
Shanna H. Swan / Louie (director, inferred)
“I hope your listeners will watch the plastic detox. It's a movie that a lot of people love and and found, you know, really moving. Um and you should watch it.”— guest
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
To Dye For
Alden Wicker
“I should probably shouldn't recommend another book, but I think it's a good book. I'll just say. It's called to die for... it's about the flight attendants uniforms”— guest
Fellow (semen testing kit)
Fellow
“There's a company called Fellow, which is grown out of UCSF and they're very big now. I think they have like 200,000 men in their files who have had their semen tested.”— guest
Oura Ring
Oura
“if you're wearing an aura ring or a whoop strap or something along those lines, you get much better recovery.”— host
WHOOP
WHOOP
“if you're wearing an aura ring or a whoop strap or something along those lines, you get much better recovery.”— host
Mate (the Label leggings)
Mate the Label
“It's a company called Mate. Overall review, it said they were the They're best middle-ground leggings... made from healthier materials and are very comfortable.”— host
Pangaia leggings
Pangaia
“Uh Pangaia... find myself reaching for these leggings more often than any of the others when it comes to hardcore workouts... They have great stretch. Squat test passed.”— host
Big reveals from this episode
- Swan says Rogan's question on the prior episode ('Why don't people know about this?') changed her life and led her to found the Action Science Initiative.
- A Michelin-star chef friend's testosterone allegedly rose to 1,200 with no replacement therapy, just by eliminating microplastics.
- The intervention study followed six couples with idiopathic infertility for three months, measuring semen quality, chemical levels, and pregnancies.
- Late scientist Lou Guillette found alligators in polluted lakes had measurably smaller penises and lower testosterone.
- Guillette reportedly told Congress 'every man in this room is half the man his grandfather was' on testosterone.
- A Faroe Islands study linked higher PFAS levels to weaker antibody response to vaccination.
- A Mercedes in-car fragrance system is labeled 'miscellaneous dangerous goods.'
- Swan confirms that in five years almost nothing about chemical exposure has improved.
Worth remembering
- Microplastics piggyback plasticizers into cells, causing both chemical and physical (inflammation) harm, similar to asbestos.
- It takes about 70 days to make sperm, which is why the intervention ran three months.
- Average births per couple fell from about five in 1960 to roughly 0.88 in South Korea today.
- Phthalates are added to pesticides and hand cream because they increase absorption into skin and plants.
- Multiple studies show people with lower fertility and sperm count tend to die younger.
- Swan's household distills its tap water; the residue left behind reportedly stinks badly.
- Chlorinated pool water can cut skin microbiome diversity by roughly 30-40% right after a swim.
- Polyester fleece can shed an estimated 110,000 microfibers per garment per wash.
- Over 1,100 chemicals are banned from personal care products in the EU; far fewer in the US.
- Glyphosate is often sprayed on wheat as a desiccant before harvest, not just as a herbicide.