Home Tim Ferriss Episode
Tim Ferriss · 2022-11-16

The Coming Cold War II — Niall Ferguson

Historian Niall Ferguson argues we've already entered Cold War II with China, with Taiwan as the new Cuba-style flashpoint.

The Coming Cold War II — Niall Ferguson
The guest

Niall Ferguson: Historian, Hoover Institution senior fellow, author of 16 books (including Kissinger, Civilization, and Doom), and founder of advisory firm Greenmantle.

What this episode covers

Niall Ferguson walks Tim Ferriss through his unconventional path from Rust Belt Glasgow to Oxbridge high tables and a three-track career as academic, public intellectual, and advisor. He explains his philosophy of history, the role of contingency and counterfactual thinking, and why reading unpublished archival material matters more than synthesizing published work. The conversation's centerpiece is his case that the US and China are already in 'Cold War II,' with Taiwan as the flashpoint, technological containment as a risky strategy, and economic interdependence offering no real protection against conflict. Ferguson closes with reflections on fatherhood, raising children in a Christian 'operating system' despite his own atheism, his marriage to ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and living without fear despite fatwa-related threats.

Recommended on this episode

BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Origins of the Second World War

A.J.P. Taylor

“The book is still worth reading even although these days, most people would disagree with Taylor”
“One of the most controversial books he ever wrote was a book on the origins of the Second World War, in which he argued very paradoxically as a contrarian”— Niall Ferguson
MediaRecommended

Hardcore History

Dan Carlin

“Dan Carlin is great. Dan Carlin is great. I love what he does”
“By the way, Dan Carlin is great. Dan Carlin is great. I love what he does... But Carlin's doing terrific work.”— Niall Ferguson
MediaRecommended

Hardcore History interview with Elon Musk on the technology of World War II

Dan Carlin

“his great interview with Elon Musk about the technology of World War II. It's brilliant”
“I recently heard his great interview with Elon Musk about the technology of World War II. It's brilliant, and it's brilliant partly because Elon knows a lot”— Niall Ferguson
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Struggle for Mastery in Europe

A.J.P. Taylor

“Taylor's masterpiece... That's the book I most admire”
“Taylor's masterpiece is quite a dense read, and I wouldn't recommend it, The Struggle for Mastery in Europe. That's the book I most admire”— Niall Ferguson
BookRecommendedISBN verified

The Collected Essays of George Orwell

George Orwell

“Read Orwell's amazing essays. There are four fantastic volumes of Orwell's essays... really worth reading”
“Read Orwell's amazing essays. There are four fantastic volumes of Orwell's essays... You will just feel like you are eating Turkish delight as you read”— Niall Ferguson
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Chip War

Chris Miller

“Chris Miller's new book, Chip War, which I highly recommend, is just the best book on why semiconductors really matter”
“Chris Miller's new book, Chip War, which I highly recommend, is just the best book on why semiconductors really matter”— Niall Ferguson
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Dominion

Tom Holland

“Tom Holland has this terrific book, Dominion... And I think that's dead right”
“Tom Holland has this terrific book, Dominion, which points out that although we think we are secular, in reality, we are still a highly Christian society”— Niall Ferguson
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Infidel

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

“Anybody who hasn't read one of my wife's books should do something about that... Infidel is a pretty good place to start”
“Anybody who hasn't read one of my wife's books should do something about that. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Infidel is a pretty good place to start”— Niall Ferguson

The guest's own work

BookBy the guestISBN verified

The Pity of War

Niall Ferguson

“He's the author of 16 books, good Lord, that's a lot of books, including The Pity of War, The House of Rothschild, Empire, Civilization, and Kissinger”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The House of Rothschild

Niall Ferguson

“He's the author of 16 books... including The Pity of War, The House of Rothschild, Empire, Civilization, and Kissinger, 1923-1968: The Idealist”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guest

Empire

Niall Ferguson

“He's the author of 16 books... including The Pity of War, The House of Rothschild, Empire, Civilization, and Kissinger, 1923-1968: The Idealist”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guest

Civilization

Niall Ferguson

“He's the author of 16 books... including The Pity of War, The House of Rothschild, Empire, Civilization, and Kissinger, 1923-1968: The Idealist”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Kissinger, 1923-1968: The Idealist

Niall Ferguson

“including The Pity of War, The House of Rothschild, Empire, Civilization, and Kissinger, 1923-1968: The Idealist, which won the Council on Foreign Relations Arthur Ross Prize”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

The Ascent of Money

Niall Ferguson

“He's an award-winning filmmaker too, having won an international Emmy for his PBS series The Ascent of Money”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

The Square and the Tower

Niall Ferguson

“His 2018 book, The Square and the Tower, was a New York Times bestseller and also adapted for television by PBS as Niall Ferguson's Networld”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

Niall Ferguson's Networld

PBS

“The Square and the Tower, was a New York Times bestseller and also adapted for television by PBS as Niall Ferguson's Networld”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guest

Doom: The Politics of Catastrophe

Niall Ferguson

“His latest book, Doom, subtitled, The Politics of Catastrophe, was published last year by Penguin and was shortlisted for the Lionel Gerber Prize”— Tim Ferriss
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Virtual History

Niall Ferguson

“And I wrote a lot about that in The Pity Of War and in the book Virtual History because I think it's important for people to understand”— Niall Ferguson
BookBy the guestISBN verified

Colossus

Niall Ferguson

“I think the analytical framework of the book Colossus was correct, namely the neo conservative project to build empires in Iraq and Afghanistan will fail”— Niall Ferguson

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

BookReferenced

The Masters

C.P. Snow

“I was at Christ's College that had been immortalized in a novel, The Masters, by C.P. Snow in which Cambridge politics provides the drama”— Niall Ferguson
BookReferencedISBN verified

Animal Farm

George Orwell

“if you want to get to Orwell, don't just read Animal Farm and 1984. Read Orwell's amazing essays”— Niall Ferguson
BookReferencedISBN verified

1984

George Orwell

“if you want to get to Orwell, don't just read Animal Farm and 1984. Read Orwell's amazing essays”— Niall Ferguson
BookReferencedISBN verified

Destined for War

Graham Allison

“this is a point Graham Allison made in his book, Destined for War. There are some probability that they end up in a hot war”— Niall Ferguson
BookReferencedISBN verified

The Great Illusion

Norman Angell

“Norman Angell wrote a whole book called The Great Illusion saying there's no possibility that they have a war. It would just be so financially ruinous”— Niall Ferguson

Big reveals from this episode

  • As a poor graduate student, Ferguson secretly wrote journalism under pseudonyms like 'Alec Campbell' and 'F.F. Gillespie' for the Daily Mail and Punch, leading a double life until a rival 'outed' him at high table.
  • Ferguson declares 'We're in a new cold war, in Cold War II' and frames rethinking the original Cold War as a matter of urgency to avoid repeating mistakes.
  • He predicts the US and China are on a collision course over Taiwan, possibly a showdown around the 2024 Taiwanese election, calling Taiwan 'what Cuba was to the last cold war.'
  • He warns the US strategy of technological containment via semiconductor sanctions is historically a stretch and actually raises Xi Jinping's incentive to seize Taiwan.
  • Ferguson predicts a high probability of a Republican president by January 2025 and says a reelected Trump 'could call off Cold War II in an afternoon' by flying to Beijing for a deal.
  • He revives his 2007 coinage 'Chimerica' and argues economic interdependence does not prevent war, citing how fast UK-Germany decoupled in 1914 and Russia decoupled after February 2022.
  • Greenmantle's track record: in January 2020 it told clients a global pandemic was coming, in early 2021 warned of inflation, and in early 2022 forecast Russia invading Ukraine at 80 percent probability.
  • Despite the fatwa against his wife and the attack on Salman Rushdie, Ferguson says fear 'is not a factor,' crediting a Scottish upbringing and an impulse to 'march towards the sound of gunfire.'

Worth remembering

  • Ferguson quotes Henry Kissinger on academic politics: 'It's so poisonous because the stakes are so low.'
  • As the junior-most fellow at Christ's College, Cambridge, he shamelessly drank the dregs of leftover Chateau Lafite to flatter patron Sir John Plumb.
  • He notes the world came 'within a hair's breadth of World War III' when a Soviet submarine commander gave the order to fire a nuclear torpedo during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
  • Ferguson dismisses Christopher Hitchens' book on Kissinger as containing only about 12 footnotes, calling it 'a polemical hatchet job' of 'outrageous superficiality.'
  • He proposes judging books by their 'ratio of words read to words written,' describing himself as a 1,000-to-1 writer who digs deeply into unpublished archives.
  • On Africa, he recounts an African friend's complaint that the US tells countries not to buy Huawei but offers no affordable alternative: 'try Ericsson, it's way more expensive.'
  • Ferguson notes 92 percent of the world's most sophisticated semiconductors are manufactured by TSMC in Taiwan.
  • He decoded the Rothschild brothers' letters (written in hard-to-read Hebrew characters) by having scholar Mordechai Zucker read them aloud onto audio cassettes.
  • During the pandemic Ferguson lived in Montana for a year, not traveling more than five miles from the house, and took daily 'philosophical walks' with his son.
  • Ferguson's wife is Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an ex-Muslim apostate and former Dutch MP; he recommends her memoir 'Infidel' as a starting point.