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Tim Ferriss · 2020-04-27

Brian Koppelman on Making Art, Francis Ford Coppola, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show

Brian Koppelman on giving and taking feedback, beating creative and personal stuckness, building serendipity, and the art behind making art.

Brian Koppelman on Making Art, Francis Ford Coppola, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show
The guest

Brian Koppelman: Screenwriter, novelist, director, and producer best known for co-creating Showtime's Billions and co-writing Rounders and Ocean's Thirteen. He also hosts The Moment podcast and was the tenth-ever guest on The Tim Ferriss Show.

What this episode covers

Brian Koppelman returns to talk with Tim Ferriss about the discipline of the creative professional, centered on how to ask for and absorb feedback without reacting emotionally. He shares deeply personal stories of being stuck, including a year-and-a-half weight struggle that he broke by working with a food-addiction therapist after the death of a close friend to opioid addiction. The conversation explores closing the gap between one's public and private self, using Twitter to reverse-engineer creative processes, and 'facilitating serendipity' through proactive outreach. Koppelman walks through the rapid, real-time process of writing a charity monologue for actor Vincent D'Onofrio, and closes with book and film recommendations about the messy reality of making art.

Recommended on this episode

BookRecommended

What I Talk About When I Talk About Running

Haruki Murakami

“I try to mention it every chance I get”
“I've mentioned this book before but I try to mention it every chance I get and that book is what I talk about when I talk about running by Haruki Murakami”— Brian Koppelman
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Making Movies

Sidney Lumet

“a book I read about once a year”
“is a book I read about once a year called making movies by Sidney Lumet which brings you through each part of the process from a true master”— Brian Koppelman
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Sex, Lies, and Videotape (book about the making of)

Steven Soderbergh

“is spectacular”
“Steven Soderbergh's book about the making of Sex Lies and videotape is spectacular for anyone interested in any of these things”— Brian Koppelman
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Exhalation

Ted Chiang

“that is a top recommendation”
“Ted Chiang exhalation is his latest his latest collection is just incredible ... so that is a top recommendation”— Tim Ferriss
MediaRecommended

The Godfather Part II

Francis Ford Coppola

“the greatest movie ever made”
“I often think about Francis Ford Coppola making The Godfather and ... I think the Godfather to is the greatest movie ever made”— Brian Koppelman
MediaRecommended

The Godfather

Francis Ford Coppola

“the most important probably in American cinema”
“I think the Godfather is the most important probably in American cinema”— Brian Koppelman
MediaRecommended

Apocalypse Now

Francis Ford Coppola

“it is truly an artistic masterpiece and worth watching”
“Apocalypse Now which is clearly more and more of a masterpiece every year ... it is truly an artistic masterpiece and worth watching”— Brian Koppelman
MediaRecommended

Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse

Eleanor Coppola

“is amazing you should find it and watch it”
“the documentary about Apocalypse Now that prints for Coppola wife made is amazing you should find it and watch it”— Brian Koppelman
MediaRecommended

Arrival

Denis Villeneuve

“one of my favorite movies”
“for those of you who may have seen arrival the movie that which is one of my favorite movies less many years”— Tim Ferriss

The guest's own work

MediaBy the guest

Billions

Brian Koppelman

“he is prolific prior to his hit show billions which he co-created an executive produced and co-wrote on spec”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

Rounders

Brian Koppelman

“he was best known as the co-writer of rounders and Ocean's thirteen as well as the producer of The Illusionist and the lucky ones”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

Ocean's Thirteen

Brian Koppelman

“he was best known as the co-writer of rounders and Ocean's thirteen as well as the producer of The Illusionist and the lucky ones”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

The Illusionist

Brian Koppelman

“as well as the producer of The Illusionist and the lucky ones”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

The Lucky Ones

Brian Koppelman

“as well as the producer of The Illusionist and the lucky ones”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

Solitary Man

Brian Koppelman

“he has directed films such as solitary man starring Michael Douglas”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

Runner Runner

Brian Koppelman

“or when I felt like failure before that the movie run a runner which was a terrible disaster when that movie bombed how I felt”— Brian Koppelman
ProductBy the guest

The Royale BK mug

Brian Koppelman

“so then I made I made the mugs and you can get a mug at the Royale BK dot-com ... all proceeds go to my favorite charity which is the Food Bank in New York”— Brian Koppelman

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

BookReferencedISBN verified

The 4-Hour Body

Tim Ferriss

“the 4-hour body does cover how to engineer that kind of accountability and I'm sure a bunch of it is available for for free on the blog”— Tim Ferriss
BookReferencedISBN verified

The 4-Hour Workweek

Tim Ferriss

“so the first book was 4-hour workweek that came out 2007 and then 4-hour body came out in 2010”— Tim Ferriss
ProductReferenced

Final Draft

Final Draft, Inc.

“final draft I I go to final yes I opened final driftable”— Brian Koppelman

Big reveals from this episode

  • Koppelman admits he does NOT take feedback well in the instant it's given, sometimes spending up to 12 bad hours cycling through rage, sadness, and self-pity before he can reach intellectual clarity and act on the notes.
  • His key feedback rule: before giving notes he asks the person 'what kind of feedback are you looking for' and 'is this finished?' - peer-level feedback contains almost no praise, only where the work falls short.
  • Two months before recording he was 249.4 pounds; sitting on the edge of his bed after finally stepping on the scale, he feared crossing 250 and hitting 300, which catalyzed an immediate change.
  • About a year and a half earlier he lost a lifelong friend, Dennis Shields, who never drank but became addicted to opioids after back surgery in his 40s and was dead by 50; Brian dedicated a Billions episode to him.
  • He made a deliberate decision to minimize the difference between his public and private selves, choosing to fail or succeed in public so he can connect more deeply and serve others going through the same struggles.
  • He cites Francis Ford Coppola making The Godfather as proof that masterpieces hide enormous doubt; Koppelman wants his own Twitter feed to show how hard it was to reach the point of making Billions.
  • The full origin story of writing a Shakespeare-style charity monologue for Vincent D'Onofrio in about a day for the New York food bank, written in Final Draft under the name 'a man' so Vincent could choose how personal to make it.
  • He reveals he first met Tim by writing a thoughtful letter (not a 'can I take you to coffee' note) after reading The 4-Hour Workweek, before either of them had a podcast, which seeded a years-long friendship.

Worth remembering

  • Koppelman and his wife Amy, also a writer and filmmaker, were two days away from their 29th wedding anniversary at the time of recording.
  • His food-addiction therapist's core insight is that sugar and flour are specific triggers for food addicts, so he eliminated both completely.
  • As an accountability practice he photographs and records every single thing he eats - even one bite of a slice of orange - and shares it with his therapist.
  • After his root canal he was prescribed Tylenol 3 (Tylenol with codeine); he took one pill and threw out the remaining 12 because of his fear of opioids.
  • He named the first coffee of his day 'the Royale,' and his Twitter community spontaneously turned it into a shared ritual and then designed a mug (theRoyaleBK.com), with proceeds going to the NYC food bank.
  • After meeting Jocko Willink on the Billions set, Koppelman says he has exercised four to five days a week and never stopped since that day.
  • Steven Soderbergh's book on the making of Sex, Lies, and Videotape walks through every day of production, post, Sundance, and selling the film, and includes the full script.
  • Koppelman re-reads Sidney Lumet's 'Making Movies' about once a year and calls Haruki Murakami his favorite living fiction writer, repeatedly recommending Murakami's 'What I Talk About When I Talk About Running.'
  • Tim shares that his own childhood best friend died after a friend gave him fentanyl for a headache, and that an aunt died of percocet and alcohol about a year and a half earlier.
  • Vincent D'Onofrio, the monologue's performer, is widely recognized as Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket and appears in Godfather of Harlem.