The guest
Michael Jai White: Actor, writer, and director (Black Dynamite, Spawn, Blood and Bone) and accomplished real-world martial artist with multiple black belts. He and Rogan trained together in the LA kickboxing scene in the 1990s.
What this episode covers
Joe Rogan reconnects with Michael Jai White, whom he first interviewed 29 years ago and trained alongside in the early LA martial arts scene. The pair trade stories about Benny the Jet, the Gracies, and the dawn of the UFC, then dig into White's hard upbringing in Bridgeport, his career as an actor-director, and his philosophy that every style and every loss has something to teach you. A long second half becomes a love letter to Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali, with White drawing on his deep research from preparing to play Tyson. They close on aging well, brain damage in fighters, and why men need rites of passage.
Recommended on this episode
MediaRecommended
Blade
Stephen Norrington
“I love Blade. Blade was like my favorite”
“I love Blade. Blade was like my favorite comic book when I was a kid.”— Joe Rogan
MediaRecommended
Spawn
Mark A.Z. Dippe
“that was a fucking great movie”
“Bro, that was a fucking great movie, man. New Line Cinema Presents. Yeah, that was a great movie.”— Joe Rogan
MediaRecommended
Collateral
Michael Mann
“a fucking great movie”
“what I watched the other day, which is a fucking great movie that I forgot was so great, is Collateral.”— Joe Rogan
MediaRecommended
Ray
Taylor Hackford
“one of the best performances ever”
“as good as he can sing, him singing as Ray Charles was insane. It's one of the best performances ever.”— Michael Jai White
The guest's own work
MediaBy the guest
Black Dynamite
Michael Jai White
“Nobody was going to write Black Dynamite for me. I had to create my own lane. That was a fun movie, by the way.”— Joe Rogan
MediaBy the guest
Outlaw Johnny Black
Michael Jai White
“I did a western with me. Outlaw Johnny Black. I wrote and directed it. I had Randy Couture in it.”— Michael Jai White
MediaBy the guest
As Good as Dead
Michael Jai White
“the next movie I'm going to do is a sequel to a movie I did called As Good as Dead... it became one of Samuel Goldwyn's most successful movies.”— Michael Jai White
MediaBy the guest
Blood and Bone
Michael Jai White
“with the movie that you turned down, Blood and Bone... actually Sony's most successful non-theatrical.”— Michael Jai White
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
MediaReferenced
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood
Quentin Tarantino
“If you tried to make Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and you weren't a successful director, someone would come along and fuck that up.”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
Three the Hard Way
Gordon Parks Jr.
“one of the biggest movies of that time was Three the Hard Way... Jim Brown, Fred Williamson, and Jim Kelly.”— Michael Jai White
MediaReferenced
Black Mass
Scott Cooper
“Just like Johnny Depp. Like Johnny Depp when he did Black Mass. Like, oh, you had that in you?”— Michael Jai White
MediaReferenced
Titanic
James Cameron
“people saw Titanic, you know how it's going to end, but you had to present a story.”— Michael Jai White
MediaReferenced
300
Zack Snyder
“you had the 300... that was just such a breath of fresh air cuz it looked like some bad asses that were real.”— Michael Jai White
Big reveals from this episode
- White claims he ran out of his apartment and jumped off the balcony seconds BEFORE the 1994 Northridge earthquake hit, watching it happen from outside.
- He was secretly teaching a karate class with ~200 students at age 15-16 because the community center thought he was an adult.
- White became a father at 15 while living as an adult on his own since age 14.
- Rogan reveals he trained twice a day for six months for a seriously-negotiated fight against Wesley Snipes that Snipes ultimately backed out of.
- White says he turned down John Wick 4, on top of turning down Rogan's offer of the lead in Blood and Bone.
- White first met Mike Tyson by phone while Tyson was in prison, set up by boxing manager Frankie Liles, as research to play him.
- White argues Tyson visibly lost heart in the third round of the first Holyfield fight when the crowd chanted for Holyfield instead of him.
Worth remembering
- It had been 29 years since Rogan last interviewed White, on a week he guest-hosted the Bob Costas show.
- White says he gassed out after two rounds sparring with Michael Bisping, who'd been drinking on a yacht all day before; White is a non-drinker.
- Bisping had 11 UFC fights with a winning record while effectively fighting with one eye, memorizing the eye chart to pass exams.
- White notes Blade is widely credited (even by Stan Lee) with saving Marvel before the modern superhero boom.
- White has completed Kyokushin '30-man' kumite challenges (and a 20-man), describing the brutal mental wall fighters hit mid-way through.
- White's instructors and training partners include Bill Wallace, Benny 'The Jet' Urquidez, Frankie Liles, Maurice Smith, and Tyler Gray (Delta Force).
- Rogan highlights Dagestani Muay Thai prodigy Azamat (Azadullah Iman Gazalyv), ~22, as possibly the best technical striker alive in ONE FC.
- White cites Tyson vs. Marvis Frazier as the scariest peak-Tyson performance ever.
- Both argue Muhammad Ali's forced three-year layover for refusing Vietnam robbed him of his physical prime; he almost never threw body shots.
- They note Larry Holmes was never forgiven by fans for beating up an aging Ali, costing him his rightful place among the greats.
More from Joe Rogan
All 6342 recommended