Lenval Logan & Jason Flom: Two retired U.S. Air Force master sergeants who crossed from aircraft maintenance into intelligence and were featured in James Fox's UFO disclosure documentary 'The Program.' Jason is a self-described official whistleblower; Lenval (Logan) served on the UAP task force and built a UFO-reporting app called Phenom.
What this episode covers
The conversation centers on the two guests' claimed insider experiences with non-human intelligence (NHI) during their Air Force intelligence careers, including monitoring phone calls about captured aliens and crash retrievals. Jason recounts a detailed roadside encounter at the Nellis test range where an earless, big-eyed entity telepathically asked him for tritium to repair its crashed craft and gave him a star map later identified as Leo/Zeta Reticuli. They discuss Roswell, the 'tall whites,' Grays, reptilians, the Belgian wave, the 2024 New Jersey drone flap, and underwater anomalies. Throughout, Joe presses skeptically while the guests describe government secrecy, intimidation, and their motives for going public. The tone mixes earnest testimony with speculation about consciousness, interdimensionality, and disclosure.
Recommended on this episode
The Top 100 UFO Sightings of All Time (school sightings book)
Preston Dennett
“his name was Preston dennant he wrote a book I hope your viewers read it or take a look at it it's like the top 100 School sightings”— Jason Sands
The guest's own work
The Program
James Fox
“both you guys were in uh the program uh which is uh a u that's where I wore my broswell shirt the UFO disclosure documentary”— Joe Rogan
Game Show in My Head
CBS
“this is another show that I worked on once uh was called game show in my head and this is pretty funny”— Joe Rogan
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Holy Hell
Will Allen
“there's a crazy documentary called holy hell and it's about this guy who is a cult leader and uh one of the things that he would do”— Joe Rogan
Chasing Amy
Kevin Smith
“remember that movie with Ben F like I think it was called like Chasing Amy... there was something that was said in there that always made me think”— Jason Sands
The Arsenio Hall Show
Arsenio Hall
“I treat this like a a segment on The Arsenio Hall Show things that make you go I'm not sure”— Jason Sands
Omni
Omni (magazine)
“remember back in the day there used to be an omni magazine... one of those hypotheses was if mammals like us hadn't shown up what would we have looked like”— Lenval Logan
Millennial Hospitality (Charles Hall tall whites books)
Charles James Hall
“Mr Hall um also published some books on it but he claims that what he was there at at this one place”— Jason Sands
Marathon military watch
Marathon Watch Company
“if you get like um Marathon watch Marathon makes military watches and the it doesn't need like this car this watch you need the light”— Joe Rogan
SIG Sauer tritium night sights
SIG Sauer
“it's the thing that they used to put on the end of the guns right exactly they still do a lot like Sig has them”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Jason claims he intercepted a phone call where program members discussed an alien 'eban' warning that captured beings would be 'put to death' if equipment and prisoners weren't returned.
- Claim that the U.S. uses a 'psionics team' to telepathically make NHI craft land rather than shoot them down.
- Jason's central story: a roadside encounter with an earless, blue-skinned entity that telepathically asked him for 'tritium' to repair its craft.
- After the encounter Jason says he drew a star map David Grusch identified as the constellation Leo / Zeta Reticuli, the entity's home system.
- Jason says his security clearance was tampered with and his car broken into on the NSA campus as intimidation for speaking out.
- Claim of a second captured alien who convinced his interrogator to push him through a recovered 'portal' back to his home world.
- Both say classified high-resolution UAP video exists that analysts could not explain and that ordinary censorship is the only reason it stays hidden.
- Logan relays that an entire allied AWACS squadron tracks an unexplained 'ziggy-zaggy' craft on radar but stays silent because people lose their jobs over it.
Worth remembering
- Tritium, the metal the entity requested, is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen with a 12.3-year half-life, used in glow-in-the-dark watch and gun sights and in thermonuclear weapons.
- The guests cite the theory that Roswell craft crashed because period radar/microwave waveforms disrupted their electromagnetically organized avionics.
- They describe a pattern of UFOs reportedly visiting schoolchildren from the 1950s-1990s, citing the Westall and Ruwa (Zimbabwe) school sightings.
- Shane Gillis's bit about George Washington's lead-set slave-and-horse teeth comes up alongside a Washington 'entity' encounter story.
- Logan ties his sighting to the 'Belgian wave,' a roughly year-long flap of triangular craft over Belgium that prompted F-16 scrambles.
- Joe references the Trump administration's New Jersey drone announcement attributing the drones to FAA-authorized research and hobbyists.
- 'Tall whites' are described (via Charles Hall) as living 800+ years, growing very tall with age, and stationed on a guarded annex inside the military complex.
- The Jackie Gleason / Richard Nixon alien-bodies legend is discussed, including Gleason's UFO-shaped house.
- They mention the 'Cuban Atlantis,' a submerged formation reportedly 13 nautical miles west of Cuba that has never been properly investigated.
- Commander David Fravor's 'Tic Tac' / torpedo account and the GoFast/oil-tanker UAP videos are cited as cases analysts argued over for months.