The guest
Chad Stahelski: Director of the John Wick films and former stuntman who doubled Keanu Reeves on The Matrix before becoming a second-unit and feature director.
What this episode covers
Chad Stahelski joins Joe Rogan to trace his path from stunt double on The Matrix to directing the John Wick franchise, a project studios initially passed on and that was made independently. He breaks down the craft behind the films: dance-based fight choreography, 'plug guns,' CGI blood, real Dragon's Breath rounds, and Belgian Malinois trained to bite green-screen pads as play. The two geek out over muscle cars, classic silent-film stuntmen like Buster Keaton, and favorite films. The back half turns to a long conversation about AI's threat to writers, actors and artists, simulation theory, smartphones and social media. Stahelski closes by previewing upcoming projects: a Highlander remake, a Ghost of Tsushima film, and Rainbow Six.
Recommended on this episode
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An American Werewolf in London
John Landis
“my favorite all-time films; one of the greatest movies ever ever”
“American we're off in London my favorite all-time films it's one of the greatest movies ever ever”— Chad Stahelski
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The Thing
John Carpenter
“still one of the best”
“well the thing is still one of the best yeah you watch the thing or American”— Chad Stahelski
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Heat
Michael Mann
“oh amazing”
“I just watched Heat last night oh amazing like you can't tell me man had all that like those are just great people on screen”— Chad Stahelski
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Minority Report
“underrated film; very underrated film”
“Minority Report style yeah minority reporting moving stuff around yeah underrated film yeah very underrated film”— Joe Rogan
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Ghost of Tsushima
Sucker Punch Productions
“one of the best looking games out there; it's got a great story”
“check out the game goes to shishima it's one of the best looking games out there but it's got a great story”— Chad Stahelski
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Highlander
“I loved Highlander”
“we're going to redo Highlander really yeah no I loved Highlander Heiner's awesome I'm super stoked to do something with that”— Joe Rogan
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Unabomber documentary (Netflix)
“a great documentary; it's really good”
“there's a great documentary on him that's on Netflix it's really good right and in it they talk about how he was Ill when he was a child”— Joe Rogan
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Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties
Tom O'Neill
“an amazing book; this masterpiece; the definitive book on Charles Manson”
“this book is called chaos and it's the definitive book on Charles Manson the Manson family and their ties to the CIA”— Joe Rogan
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Revology Mustang (1968 Bullitt replica)
Revology Cars
“it's an incredible car; you have to check that out”
“revology makes uh they make a replica of the bullet but it's with his sick suspension with a 460 horsepower Coyote engine”— Joe Rogan
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Arch Motorcycles
Arch Motorcycle Company (Keanu Reeves)
“the bikes are incredible they're great; you should check that shop out”
“that's why he's got Arch motorcycles right if you ever get a chance you should check that shop out it's the most pristine”— Chad Stahelski
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
MediaReferenced
The Matrix
The Wachowskis
“you saw some of the footage and it was the Matrix oh wow so that's how we got in or how I got in with the wachowskis”— Chad Stahelski
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V for Vendetta
The Wachowskis
“what James Boutique doing V for Vendetta just lived in the Wachowski world and that's probably one of the most incredible film schools”— Chad Stahelski
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Iron Monkey
Yuen Woo-ping
“the big choreographer that started Jet Lee and Jackie Chan did like Iron Monkey oh wow Once Upon A Time In China”— Chad Stahelski
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Once Upon a Time in China
“did like Iron Monkey oh wow Once Upon A Time In China and all that stuff so is jungle ping and his guys”— Chad Stahelski
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Bullitt
“we just played the bullet scene the other day I mean that car scene no music no just it's all cars just cars”— Joe Rogan
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Game of Thrones
“Alfie Allen that guy's incredible so good he's we Castle off Game of Thrones oh my I Used to Love Game of Thrones”— Joe Rogan
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The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
“Michael Nyquist yeah that guy was so good he was in uh the original Girl With Dragon Tattoo”— Joe Rogan
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Bloodsport 2
“that's Daniel Bernhardt that's a good he was the star of Bloodsport 2 and Bloodsport three pull that one up”— Joe Rogan
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Spy
“what was that movie Spy with Statham oh yeah he's Italian he played the Italian spot he was so funny”— Chad Stahelski
MediaReferenced
Django Unchained
Quentin Tarantino
“like a Tarantino like in Django Tarantino still uses old school blood packs which I you know I'm old school I love that”— Chad Stahelski
MediaReferenced
The Continental
Lionsgate
“called the Continental it's kind of a spin-off that was done uh very separate from the world that we've created”— Chad Stahelski
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Hong Kong Massacre
“something I had I'd saw like years ago was called Hong Kong Massacre and I was like what was cool about it was from the top”— Chad Stahelski
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Avatar
James Cameron
“even now with what they can do with Avatar they still need performers to go and give you that little twist”— Chad Stahelski
MediaReferenced
Invasion USA
“Chuck Norris's Invasion USA like you know things that were kind of so nutty and wacky but like you know they hit a chord”— Chad Stahelski
MediaReferenced
Enter the Ninja
“the old show kasuji movies you know Enter the Ninja or something like that or Chuck Norris's Invasion USA”— Chad Stahelski
BookReferenced
Hagakure
Yamamoto Tsunetomo
“it was called haga Curry um Japanese word that Lily meant like hidden leaves it was A Treatise on samurai code of ethics”— Chad Stahelski
BookReferenced
The Odyssey
Homer
“we'll go back to Odysseus and like The Iliad or the Odyssey and we'll go okay this guy just wants to get home”— Chad Stahelski
ProductReferenced
Benelli shotgun
Benelli
“we already did the Benelli thing you know we did the caddy you know his quad loading I'm like I don't know if I want to do shotguns again”— Chad Stahelski
ProductReferenced
Genesis automatic shotgun
“Taryn introduced me to the Genesis shotgun automatic shotgun that thing is insane it's crazy crazy isn't it like 12 rounds”— Chad Stahelski
ProductReferenced
Dragon's Breath shotgun rounds
“it's actually it's actually called Dragon's Breath it's real it's real dragon's breath yeah there's there's this great YouTube video”— Chad Stahelski
ProductReferenced
Apple Vision Pro (Apple AR headset)
Apple
“they just released some new Apple AR headset that's supposed to be a real game changer really yeah it's gonna be augmented reality”— Joe Rogan
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iPhone
Apple
“you have an iPhone right I mean do you see what these things can do like yeah you know we had the big mirror the big VHS cameras”— Chad Stahelski
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Neuralink
Neuralink
“they'll start probably doing neuralink and similar Technologies they'll start doing human trials probably within I think”— Joe Rogan
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ChatGPT
OpenAI
“chat GPT will do that for you and this is just chat gpt4 you know what happens when they get to chat gbt30”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Stahelski spent eight and a half years with the Wachowskis after auditioning for and doubling Keanu Reeves on The Matrix, his entry into film.
- John Wick began as a grounded script called 'Scorn' where the lead was 65 and only two people died; the name honors writer Derek Kolstad's grandfather.
- Stahelski and Dave Leitch won the directing job by pitching a Greek-mythology, Tolkien-style world layered over a 24-hour weekend.
- Four or five studios passed on John Wick, so it was made independently; the first friends-and-family screening was met with dead silence.
- Joe Rogan personally texted Stahelski to put a '71 Barracuda muscle car in John Wick 4, and he did it.
- The film's dog attacks use Belgian Malinois trained to bite green-screen pads as fun play, with parachute rip-cords to release them on 'cut.'
- Most John Wick blood and muzzle flashes are composited CGI; the guns are 'plug guns' that cycle the action but can't fire a live round.
- Stahelski's upcoming slate includes a Highlander remake, a Ghost of Tsushima film with Sony, and Rainbow Six.
Worth remembering
- John Wick has racked up more on-screen kills than Michael Myers, Jason and Rambo; Keanu reportedly speaks only ~308 words in the fourth film.
- Keanu Reeves invented the now-competitive magazine-reload flip himself during the second film.
- The Red Circle bar sequence was shot in under four days while Keanu had a 103-degree fever.
- Halle Berry trained roughly eight and a half months and raised her two on-screen Belgian Malinois from scratch for John Wick 4.
- Stunt performer Dave Camarillo did over 100 dog hits and got a t-shirt reading '109 dog hits.'
- Stahelski cites Buster Keaton and Harold Lloyd as influences and notes Keaton reportedly broke his neck performing a real stunt.
- The flaming shotgun blasts in the films use real phosphorus 'Dragon's Breath' rounds; the spinning auto-shotgun is a real Genesis shotgun.
- John Wick 4 was almost titled 'Hagakure,' but the term's WWII militaristic-Japan associations led them to drop it.
- The 'Baba Yaga' boogeyman backstory came from filmmakers digging through Russian fairy tales for a cool-sounding name.
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