The guest
Alisa Cohn: An executive coach who has worked with founders and executives for nearly 20 years at companies like Venmo, Etsy, DraftKings, Dell, Google, and Microsoft. A recovering CPA and former startup CFO, she is the author of 'From Startup to Grown-Up' and an angel investor and Broadway show investor.
What this episode covers
Tim Ferriss interviews his own longtime coach Alisa Cohn about her unusual path from PwC accountant to top executive coach, including a flu-induced wake-up call and a cold-email pilgrimage to mentor Marshall Goldsmith. They dig deep into leadership tools: how 360 feedback works (and why it's emotionally crushing), pre-mortems, running effective meetings, the three-words branding exercise, and transforming negative self-talk through self-compassion. Cohn also covers her book's framework of managing you, managing them, and managing the business, including co-founder 'prenup' questions. The episode ends with an extended bonus masterclass where Cohn delivers word-for-word scripts for giving feedback, firing people, layering in managers, one-on-ones, and networking.
Recommended on this episode
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Crucial Conversations
“i think a fantastic resource is crucial conversations”
“i think a fantastic resource is crucial conversations which is then followed up by crucial confrontations his companion book”— Alisa Cohn
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Crucial Confrontations
“crucial conversations and crucial confrontations give you a lot of tools into how to address those conversations”
“crucial conversations and crucial confrontations give you a lot of tools into how to address those conversations”— Alisa Cohn
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Radical Candor
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“i would add radical candor by kim scott is also a great book on that from that point of view because it also makes the case”— Alisa Cohn
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I Think You're Fat
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“which is actually a really good article”
“an article that a friend of mine named aj jacobs wrote for esquire magazine which is actually a really good article called the headline is i think you're fat”— Tim Ferriss
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Don't Shoot the Dog
Karen Pryor
“there's a great book called don't shoot the dog ... that i recommend to everybody”
“there's a great book called don't shoot the dog terrible title great book by uh it's karen pryor that i recommend to everybody”— Tim Ferriss
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Immunity to Change
Robert Kegan
“i'm doing it was very helpful”
“michael was kind enough to do this process called immunity to change ... i'm doing it was very helpful so it's i think his name is robert keegan”— Alisa Cohn
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I Wanna Be a Producer: How to Make a Killing on Broadway... or Get Killed
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“it's actually a very helpful book”
“there is a book i'm gonna butcher the names ... it's how to make a killing on broadway or something like that ... it's actually a very helpful book”— Alisa Cohn
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Dig Your Well Before You're Thirsty
Harvey Mackay
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“i was inspired a long time ago by a book called dig your well before your thirsty by harvey mckay”— Alisa Cohn
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Superconnect
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The guest's own work
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From Start-Up to Grown-Up
Alisa Cohn
“she's the author of brand new book from startup to grown-up a guidebook for entrepreneurs on the leadership journey from founder to ceo”— Tim Ferriss
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Tribe of Mentors
Tim Ferriss
“and he was in tribe of mentors and i think the question he was responding to is something you know what have you come to appreciate”— Tim Ferriss
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
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Mental Toughness Training for Sports
Jim Loehr
“i read a book called mental toughness training for sports by someone named jim lehrer who much much much later decades later actually had on the podcast”— Tim Ferriss
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On Finding Something to Worry About
The School of Life
“it's from school of life it's a really short article called and i'm paraphrasing i'll put the link in the show notes but on finding something to worry about”— Tim Ferriss
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The $12 Million Stuffed Shark
Don Thompson
“a book i think it's called the 12 million dollar stuffed shark which was written by an economist who's familiar with the contemporary world”— Tim Ferriss
Big reveals from this episode
- Cohn's career-change catalyst was waking up at PwC hoping to catch the flu so she wouldn't have to go to work, then literally being rushed to the ER with the flu 18 hours later.
- After turning down Goldman Sachs for a startup and immediately regretting it, she called back to reverse her decision and was told no, but the Goldman contact gifted her two insights: she's instantly credible and her stand-up comedy background prepared her for rejection.
- Cohn cold-emailed legendary coach Marshall Goldsmith after reading a New Yorker article, did a 'pilgrimage' to his San Diego home, and that walk around a lake led to her joining his coaching team working with bank CEOs.
- An Indian CEO got 360 feedback that he was a bully, threw the papers down, stormed out saying he'd 'get to the bottom of this,' then came back having called his wife who said 'it's all true.'
- Cohn explains the pre-mortem: instead of asking 'what could go wrong,' assume the project has already failed six months out and reverse-engineer the causes.
- She introduces the CPR framework (Content, Pattern, Relationship) for giving feedback to someone who repeatedly ignores feedback, shifting from nagging about content to addressing the pattern itself.
- Her book took ten years to write because of self-doubt; the breakthrough came from coach Michael Bungay Stanier walking her through the 'Immunity to Change' process to surface what was holding her back.
- Cohn advocates founder 'prenups' with checklist questions co-founders should answer in advance, like 'what if one of us isn't scaling,' 'how do we resolve unresolvable disagreements,' and 'when and at what valuation do we want to exit.'
Worth remembering
- Cohn grew up in Holliston, Massachusetts, next to Hopkinton where the Boston Marathon starts, was a journalism major at Boston University, and got her MBA at Cornell.
- Tim describes 360 feedback as 'panic attack level crushing' and notes Airbnb co-founder Joe Gebbia cried in his car in the parking lot after his.
- Tim's mistake in 360 feedback was telling Cohn to skip the positive feedback and front-load only the critical 'development opportunities,' a stance he now considers untrue.
- Tim quotes investor John Arnold, who became the youngest US billionaire in 2007, on how organizations fret over small expenses yet keep superfluous staff tied up in conference rooms for hours.
- Cohn's 'three words' exercise revealed a client who saw herself as 'strategic' was described by 8-10 colleagues as detailed, critical, thoughtful, analytical, and methodical, but never strategic.
- Tim did a 360-style assessment at age 15-16 from the book 'Mental Toughness Training for Sports' by Jim Loehr, whom he later interviewed on his podcast.
- Cohn cites research that athletes who say motivating things to themselves perform better, while demotivating self-talk makes them perform worse.
- Cohn says the first line of her book is 'Leadership is an unnatural act.'
- Cohn is also an amateur rapper whose stage name is 'K Bell' (as in kettlebell) and an investor in Broadway shows, two of which have won Tony Awards.
- Cohn demonstrates networking by congratulating a Broadway producer on a committee appointment in a 20-second note, and he replied happily within 30 minutes.
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