The guest
Lukas Nelson: Singer-songwriter and son of Willie Nelson, leader of the band Promise of the Real. He co-wrote and performed music for A Star Is Born and is touring behind a new, stripped-down sober album.
What this episode covers
Lukas Nelson opens up about growing up the son of a legend, learning guitar to get closer to his often-absent father, and finding his own identity and purpose. He discusses going sober around the pandemic, replacing weed and alcohol with meditation, exercise and discipline, and how his clearest album yet came out of that clarity. The conversation roams across music as a force that reaches the heart and crosses divides, the dangers of social media and manipulated outrage, and the value of local community and regenerative farming. The back half turns to physical discipline, ultramarathoners, and an extended exchange on UFOs, including two unexplained sightings Lukas had in Hawaii.
Recommended on this episode
ProductRecommended
Whoop
Whoop
“I got my Whoop right here”
“I got my Whoop, you know, I got my Whoop right here. I started tracking my sleep. the sleep is really what got me the most”— Lukas Nelson
MediaRecommended
Higher End (song)
Ren
“You'd love his work”
“there's an artist named Ren. You'd love his work. He's like a He plays guitar and he sings amazingly. Listen to Higher end.”— Lukas Nelson
MediaRecommended
Graceland (album)
Paul Simon
“in my opinion one of the greatest albums of all time”
“when he did the Graceland album, he went down there and he worked with local African musicians and created in my opinion one of the greatest albums of all time”— Lukas Nelson
The guest's own work
MediaBy the guest
Turn Off the News and Build a Garden (song)
Lukas Nelson
“I have a song called Turn Off the News and Build a Garden. Do you ever hear that song? You want me to play it for you?”— Lukas Nelson
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
BookReferencedISBN verified
Man's Search for Meaning
Viktor Frankl
“Victor Frankle has a um a book, a very famous book called Man's Search for Meaning. And it's about Auschwitz and he was an Auschwitz survivor”— Lukas Nelson
BookReferencedISBN verified
The Power of Now
Eckhart Tolle
“I read the uh the power of now, which is echartole when I was like 13”— Lukas Nelson
MediaReferenced
Masters of War (song)
Bob Dylan
“Look at Bob Dylan, Masters of War. I mean, that's the military-industrial complex right there. That's an incredible song.”— Lukas Nelson
MediaReferenced
Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Inner Light
Paramount
“There's a great episode of Star Trek called The Inner Light. Have you ever seen that? It's the coolest concept ever.”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
Mission to Mars
Brian De Palma
“There's a whole movie dedicated to that exact premise. Called Mission to Mars. it's like a great movie and it's about that at the end.”— Joe Rogan
MediaReferenced
Voodoo Child (song)
Jimi Hendrix
“Steve Ray is the only one who's allowed to do Voodoo Child other than Hendrix. Imagine writing Voodoo Child if you're sober”— Lukas Nelson
ProductReferenced
Snickers
Mars
“as far as junk food goes, I'm just a good old Snickers bar. Snickers bar has nuts, some protein. There's plenty of sugar in it too”— Lukas Nelson
ProductReferenced
Coca-Cola
The Coca-Cola Company
“Floyd Mayweather. Yeah, he drank Coca-Cola after he worked out. just like immediate sugar after exercise to replenish the body.”— Joe Rogan
BookReferencedISBN verified
Born to Run
Christopher McDougall
“Did you read that book a long time ago it came out? I think it was called Born to Run, but it was like about the Tarahumara tribe.”— Lukas Nelson
ProductReferenced
ChatGPT
OpenAI
“I actually asked chat GPT of all of the credible UFO reports, which ones have not in some way been sort of explained”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Lukas reveals he quit smoking weed and drinking around the pandemic and now only does mushrooms occasionally to 'check in' with himself.
- Says he wrote his first song, 'You Were It,' at age 11 and Willie Nelson covered it on his 2004 album It Always Will Be.
- Credits his Whoop tracker showing his sleep going 'to s---' after any drink or hit as a key reason he got sober.
- Repeatedly insists he refuses to 'join any teams' or hold resolute political opinions, saying he isn't informed enough to.
- Describes two unexplained UFO sightings in Hawaii, including an orange orb that left the atmosphere the moment enough people saw it.
- Recounts serenading Muhammad Ali one afternoon in Hawaii alongside his father and Kris Kristofferson.
- Admits hearing Ren's song made him think his own song 'All God Did' was worse: 'Oh s---, that's way better.'
Worth remembering
- The anterior mid-cingulate cortex, tied to willpower and tenacity, physically grows when you force yourself to do things you don't want to do.
- Psychedelics were lumped into Schedule One during the Nixon era partly to target anti-war and civil-rights activists.
- Paul Simon recorded Graceland with South African musicians like Ladysmith Black Mambazo, which Lukas calls one of the greatest albums of all time.
- Country singer Stephen Wilson Jr. worked as a food scientist before music, helping formulate dog food.
- Ultramarathoner Courtney Dauwalter survives on candy and beer and once beat second place by roughly eight hours in a 250-mile race.
- A 287-pound runner named Colin Anderson ran a 100-mile ultramarathon and reportedly weighed more afterward (297) from eating the whole way.
- Daryl Davis, a Black musician, has befriended KKK members until hundreds of them quit and handed over their robes.
- Joe uses the iPhone Voice Memo transcription feature to scan an hour of stand-up sets for usable bits instead of relistening.
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