Andrew Gallimore: A neuroscientist, chemical pharmacologist and author of 'Death by Astonishment' who studies the DMT state. He co-developed the DMTX extended-infusion concept with Rick Strassman and works with the nonprofit Neonautics.
What this episode covers
Joe Rogan and Andrew Gallimore dig deep into DMT, the brain's strangest molecule, and why Gallimore believes the experience is not mere hallucination. He explains the neuroscience of how the brain constructs reality as a layered model, why the DMT world feels 'realer than real,' and his theory that DMT gates access to a genuine non-human intelligence. The conversation expands into near-death experiences, the pineal gland myth, post-biological alien civilizations, the Kardashev scale, simulation theory and ancient mysteries. Gallimore details DMTX, his target-controlled infusion method to hold people in the DMT state for hours, and a legal research/retreat center opening in the Caribbean. They close on a long riff comparing chaotic Western cities like LA's Skid Row to the orderly, respect-driven culture of Tokyo, where Gallimore lives.
The guest's own work
Death by Astonishment
Andrew Gallimore
“death by astonishment, which is the famous Terrence McKenna quote, right? ... confronting the mystery of the world's strangest drug.”— Andrew Gallimore
Death by Astonishment
Andrew Gallimore
“this book that you wrote is available now, Death by Astonishment. Um, is it in audio form as well? Yeah, read by myself.”— Joe Rogan
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
DMT: The Spirit Molecule
Rick Strassman
“Rick Strasman of course in the '9s when he wrote DMT the spirit molecule he hypothesized that in fact the point of death DMT is released by the pineal”— Andrew Gallimore
The Soul of Prophecy
Rick Strassman
“the burning bush that Moses encountered was probably the acacia bush that contained DMT. Yeah. This is I know Strasman, one of his books, The Soul of Prophecy.”— Andrew Gallimore
Supernatural
Graham Hancock
“In Graham Hancock actually in his book Supernatural in his first DMT experience he described this um this download of highly complex entirely nonhuman uh information”— Andrew Gallimore
Abduction
John Mack
“there's one report in his first book, Abduction, John Mack's um, first book about the abduction uh, experience.”— Andrew Gallimore
Big reveals from this episode
- Gallimore claims most scientists, even neuroscientists, dismiss DMT as 'just hallucination' and don't grasp how confounding the state really is.
- Argues the brain on DMT constructs a world it never learned to build, 'speaking a language it never learned,' implying contact with an external intelligence.
- States plainly he believes consciousness is fundamental and 'everything is consciousness,' not generated by the brain.
- Theory that the most abundant cosmic intelligences are post-biological, embedded in spacetime, and reachable through the brain via DMT.
- Recounts a DMTX subject whose entities said 'we're done today' and visions stopped even while DMT was still being pumped in, suggesting the entities have control.
- Suggests humanity may be an 'intelligence farm' whose purpose is to birth a superior technological intelligence.
- Reveals the origin of DMTX: borrowing target-controlled infusion from anesthesiology to stabilize the DMT state for 30 minutes to hours.
- Announces a legal, medically supervised DMTX retreat/research center opening March 1st via elucismind.com on Bequia in St. Vincent and the Grenadines.
Worth remembering
- Neurosurgeon Wilder Penfield's 1950s 'Montreal procedure' mapped the brain by zapping it while patients were awake with their skulls open.
- The 'Thatcher effect' shows how the brain builds faces hierarchically: an upside-down face with right-side-up eyes/mouth looks fine until you flip it.
- A recent microdialysis study found DMT in rat brains at levels similar to serotonin and dopamine, and removing the pineal gland didn't stop production.
- DMT protects neurons against hypoxia and spikes in a dying rat's brain, hinting at a real link to near-death experiences.
- Humans sit almost exactly midway on the scale between a hydrogen atom and the observable universe, but there's vastly more 'room at the bottom.'
- The Yanomami use a DMT-containing snuff called yopo and report tiny lively beings strikingly similar to DMT 'elves.'
- Marshall McLuhan's quote that 'human beings are the sex organs of the machine world.'
- Methamphetamine was invented in Japan; WWII Kamikaze pilots took green 'storming tablets' stamped with the emperor's crest.
- Carl Smith was the first person to undergo DMTX and the only one to complete all five sessions in the Imperial College pilot study.
- Gallimore notes ancient civilizations from Egypt to Greece show evidence of psychedelic use.