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Tim Ferriss · 2022-07-29

Liv Boeree, Poker and Life —Turning $500 into $1.7M, Game Theory, and Metaphysical Curiosities

Poker champion Liv Boeree on game theory, learning poker, emotional control under pressure, and unexplainable metaphysical experiences.

Liv Boeree, Poker and Life —Turning $500 into $1.7M, Game Theory, and Metaphysical Curiosities
The guest

Liv Boeree: One of the UK's most successful poker players, with European Poker Tour and World Series of Poker titles. Former astrophysics student, now a TV host and YouTuber focused on game theory, futurism, and rationality, and co-founder of Raising for Effective Giving.

What this episode covers

Liv Boeree tells Tim Ferriss how she fell into poker via a UK reality TV show after a metal-and-cage-dancing youth, then turned it into a 12-year professional career. She lays out a concrete 8-week curriculum for how Tim could learn to beat his friend Jason Calacanis, explaining ranges, pot odds, GTO solvers, and the diminishing returns that drove her away from the game. The conversation digs deep into the mental side of poker, including tilt, the 'red mist,' the 'white noise,' and Kahneman's System 1 / System 2 framework. Liv then recounts two unexplainable experiences, a winning premonition before her career-making San Remo win and an apparent energy-healing cure of an inner-ear condition, and how she integrates them as a trained rationalist. They close on probabilistic thinking, the replication crisis, and her current obsession, the negative-sum-game demon she calls Moloch.

Recommended on this episode

MediaRecommended

Orion (remastered)

Metallica

“Oh, great choice. Yeah. Nice choice. Very very yeah.”
“And to get into the zone coming here on the drive over, I listened to Orion, the remastered. Oh, great choice.”— Tim Ferriss
MediaRecommended

All-In podcast

Jason Calacanis

“It is a fantastic fantastic show. I do think it is one of the the best newest podcasts that I've put into my rotation.”
“It is a fantastic fantastic show. I do think it is one of the the best newest podcasts that I've put into my rotation.”— Tim Ferriss
MediaRecommended

Mindscape

Sean Carroll

“Excellent podcast.”
“My brother introduced me to his podcast Mindscape. Is it Mindscape? Excellent podcast.”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Suggestible You: The Curious Science of Your Brain's Ability to Deceive, Transform, and Heal

Erik Vance

“an excellent book”
“Eric Vance who wrote a book called Suggestible You... an excellent book.”— Tim Ferriss
BookRecommended

The Scout Mindset

Julia Galef

“I would recommend some of Julia Galef's work, the scout mindset”
“I would recommend some of Julia Galef's work, the scout mindset and motivated reasoning.”— Liv Boeree
BookRecommendedISBN verified

Inadequate Equilibria

Eliezer Yudkowsky

“There's this really incredible short online book... And I recommend inadequate equilibria.”
“There's this really incredible short online book called inadequate equilibria... And I recommend inadequate equilibria.”— Liv Boeree

The guest's own work

MediaBy the guest

The Tim Ferriss Show #194: The Magic and Power of Placebo

Tim Ferriss

“A podcast that I did six years ago. This is podcast number 194 The Magic and Power of Placebo. This is with Eric Vance”— Tim Ferriss
MediaBy the guest

The Beauty Wars

Liv Boeree

“I just made a a video on uh called the beauty wars uh about this like fictitious thing called Moloch, which I call like the demon of negative sum games.”— Liv Boeree
MediaBy the guest

The Attention Wars

Liv Boeree

“That's the name of the next video is the attention wars which is about that like why Twitter and everything is making us so angry.”— Liv Boeree

Also referenced (named, not recommended)

MediaReferenced

Master of Puppets

Metallica

“My very first album I ever bought was on cassette tape, and it was Master of Puppets.”— Tim Ferriss
MediaReferenced

The Unforgiven

Metallica

“The Iron Maiden of the poker world, they called you. And there's a short discussion of The Unforgiven.”— Tim Ferriss
MediaReferenced

Vulgar Display of Power

Pantera

“Phil Anselmo after he's, you know, Vulgar Display of Power era whatever, yeah.”— Liv Boeree
ProductReferenced

PioSolver

“These are these like simulators. There's this one called PioSolver that was at least popular in the day when I was playing.”— Liv Boeree
MediaReferenced

Hey Boy Hey Girl

The Chemical Brothers

“I remember distinctly the music it was Chemical Brothers Hey Boy Hey Girl which I always loved always loved that song.”— Liv Boeree
BookReferencedISBN verified

Poor Charlie's Almanack

Charlie Munger

“You can look at something like Poor Charlie's Almanack with Charlie Munger although it's a bit dense and it's a little user unfriendly in a lot of respects.”— Tim Ferriss

Big reveals from this episode

  • Liv learned poker in 2005 via a UK reality show seeking five beginners; she was cast as 'the professor,' had a crying on-camera meltdown after misreading the board, and still fell in love with the game.
  • The first tournament she ever played was a £5 rebuy in London; she turned up with only £10, won it against ~120 players for about £750, and got hooked.
  • Liv claims that even with just the basic rules, Tim would have roughly a 35-45% chance against Jason over a thousand hands, illustrating how much luck dominates poker short-term.
  • She prescribes an 8-week, ~40-hours-per-week curriculum (in-person play, ranges, pot odds, then GTO solver charts like PioSolver) to make Tim a 60/40 favorite over Jason.
  • At EPT San Remo in 2010 she turned a 500-euro satellite into the 5,000-euro main event and won 1.25 million euros (~$1.7M), the largest tournament held in Europe at the time (~1,200+ players).
  • Before that tournament began, a bolt-of-lightning voice in her own head said 'you are going to win this tournament'; she got goosebumps and even told a friend mid-event she felt she'd win.
  • After being diagnosed with likely Meniere's disease (incurable, often leading to deafness), an energy healer at Burning Man 'sucked' over her ear, collapsed crying, and Liv's symptoms fully and permanently disappeared.
  • Liv's current obsession is 'Moloch,' her name for the demon/god of negative-sum games and arms races, illustrated by Instagram beauty filters trapping people in a worse Nash equilibrium.

Worth remembering

  • Liv was nicknamed 'The Iron Maiden of the poker world' and was obsessed with metal (Metallica, Pantera, Dimmu Borgir, Burzum) from ages 16 to 22.
  • Before poker she did goth modeling and worked as a cage dancer in London rock clubs during her gap year.
  • In 2005, Liv says even the top poker players didn't really understand game theory, whereas an average player understands it today.
  • Tim trained for about five days under poker pro Phil Gordon for a TV show and did well at heads-up but got 'slaughtered' at a full table.
  • Pot odds: if you have a 25% chance to hit your card and the pot offers you 5-to-1, the call is profitable.
  • 'Tilt' is when emotions make a player play badly; 'monkey tilt' is an extreme flavor of it.
  • Liv distinguishes 'red mist' (anger from being needled) from 'white noise' (System 2 going blank under tiredness or stress).
  • Liv reached San Remo only because the 2010 Iceland volcano shut down European airspace and stranded her near a satellite tournament a train ride away.
  • Her go-to emotional regulation is three deep belly breaths while imagining her favorite color (a turquoise-and-purple mix), plus laughing at herself.
  • Tim was a paid subject in one of Daniel Kahneman's studies and also did Stanford heat-exhaustion experiments marching to collapse with esophageal and anal probes.