Mariana van Zeller: Portuguese-American investigative journalist and host of National Geographic's five-season docuseries 'Trafficked,' who embeds with cartels, smugglers and scammers to report on the global black and gray markets. She just launched her own podcast, 'The Hidden Third.'
What this episode covers
Van Zeller walks Rogan through 20 years of reporting on the world's illicit economy, which she says makes up an estimated 35% of the global economy. They cover Sinaloa cartel meth and fentanyl labs, counterfeit-money operations in Peru, the cartel's distribution network inside the US, and the 'rehab scam' that bills insurance for fake addiction treatment. The conversation pivots into a long, impassioned discussion of immigration enforcement, ICE raids, asylum law and the human toll of deportations. They dig into the opioid crisis and the Oxycontin pill-mill pipeline van Zeller exposed, the Sackler family and pharma corruption, and the explosion of Southeast Asian 'scam factories' that traffic and torture people into running pig-butchering crypto scams. Throughout, both push a recurring theme: empathy over tribalism, the corrosive effect of social media-fueled political division, and the need for nonviolent leadership.
Recommended on this episode
American Pain
Darren Foster
“my husband did a documentary about it about the rise and fall of these twin brothers... It's called American Pain. You should watch it. It's on HBO.”— Mariana van Zeller
Hate Inc.
Matt Taibbi
“Have you ever read Hate Inc. his book? Really good. He makes the case that Rachel Maddow is Bill O'Reilly on the left.”— Joe Rogan
Uncut Gems
Josh Safdie and Benny Safdie
“Did you see Uncut Gems? ... The best representation of a gambling addict I've ever seen in a film.”— Joe Rogan
The guest's own work
Trafficked
National Geographic / Mariana van Zeller
“we've done five seasons of Trafficked. The last season just premiered a couple of months ago. Um it's available now on Hulu.”— Mariana van Zeller
The Hidden Third
Mariana van Zeller
“It's on YouTube and I'm growing it into something bigger. So, it starts with interviews. The podcast is called The Hidden Third.”— Mariana van Zeller
The Oxycontin Express
Mariana van Zeller
“that was part of the story that we did Oxycottton Express where I went undercover into one of these pain clinics”— Mariana van Zeller
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Painkiller
Peter Berg / Netflix
“after Peter Berg's Netflix series, Painkiller came out that they put a halt on because they were supposed to pay an enormous settlement”— Mariana van Zeller
Abundance
Ezra Klein
“Have you read Ezra Klein's book about this? ... how Democrats have to figure out how to make the system work and how to build things”— Joe Rogan
Big reveals from this episode
- Van Zeller reveals 'Trafficked' has ended after five seasons because Disney/Nat Geo shifted toward natural-history programming.
- Counterfeiters get roughly 70% of face value in real cash for fake bills, distributed first through small-town grocery stores.
- A cartel distributor called 'El Gringo' says strippers carry drugs on Delta flights coast-to-coast because women draw less suspicion.
- One fraudulent rehab facility was billing insurance around $870,000 a week while not treating patients.
- On-air, they read testimony that Minnesota non-citizens with driver's licenses can register and cast ballots, though such voting is illegal.
- Van Zeller says only one pharma owner, John Kapoor of Insys, has ever gone to prison over the opioid crisis.
- Scam factories in Cambodia and Myanmar use trafficked, tortured forced labor; the US seized $15 billion in crypto from one group.
- A trusted Kansas bank head stole ~$47 million from customers after being caught in a pig-butchering crypto scam.
Worth remembering
- An estimated 35% of the global economy is black and gray markets, what economists call 'the hidden third.'
- The global drug trade alone is estimated at $300-600 billion every year.
- The US is the world's number-one drug consumer, spending about $150 billion on drugs annually.
- 'Tranq dope' is fentanyl cut with xylazine, an animal tranquilizer that causes gangrenous wounds and amputations in Kensington, Philadelphia.
- Ibogaine reportedly has an ~80% success rate getting people off drugs in one session, now legal in Texas for veterans with PTSD.
- There are roughly 11 million backlogged US asylum cases; entering without papers and then requesting asylum is legal.
- Undocumented immigrants paid nearly $97 billion in federal, state and local taxes in 2022.
- Florida's pill mills were so dominant that 90 of the top 100 Oxycontin-prescribing doctors in the US were in Florida.
- Purdue Pharma marketed Oxycontin claiming fewer than 1% of users would become addicted.
- The bookie in the Shohei Ohtani scandal had winnings over $142 million and losses around $183 million.