John Eckbert: CEO of Five Guys Europe, responsible for 225 restaurants across the UK, Germany, France, Spain and Portugal; former banker who partnered with Sir Charles Dunstone to bring Five Guys to Europe in 2010.
What this episode covers
John Eckbert explains how Five Guys grew across Europe without any advertising, relying entirely on word of mouth, an obsessively fresh and simple burgers-and-fries product, open kitchens, and premium flagship property locations. He details the company's culture-first hiring philosophy, its 'negative sell' recruiting approach, twice-weekly mystery shopping, and incentive pay funded by money other brands spend on ads. The conversation then turns deeply personal as Eckbert discusses a painful divorce and a 'leave to remove' court process that allowed his children to be taken to America, and how work became his anchor. He reflects on self-awareness, vulnerability, anger, and reconnecting with his kids. The episode blends operational business lessons with raw personal reflection.
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
Forrest Gump
Robert Zemeckis
“you remember from the film forrest gump where he's talking to his girlfriend janie or the girl he loves and he says you know i'm not a smart man”— John Eckbert
Big reveals from this episode
- The Covent Garden location, the first Five Guys outside the US, sold more than any Five Guys in the world and was underwritten for a five-and-a-half-year payback but paid back in two years.
- Five Guys does no advertising at all, relying entirely on footfall and word of mouth, which is why it chooses premium flagship property locations.
- The company convinced the founding Morrell family to add delivery, which grew to about 20 percent of sales and became its lifeblood during the pandemic.
- Five Guys mystery shops every store twice a week and pays out millions in incentive compensation to crew instead of spending on advertising.
- Eckbert went through a divorce and a UK 'leave to remove' court process that allowed his ex to take his two young children to America.
- A US non-compete from a business he had sold meant he could not relocate to America, leaving him feeling like an 'indentured servant' bound to the UK to meet court-ordered financial obligations.
- Eckbert admits his hands-off, no-formal-review approach to feedback was 'probably wrong' and he now schedules dedicated review conversations.
Worth remembering
- Eckbert grew up in a counter-cultural isolationist family that didn't watch TV or celebrate birthdays and woke at 5am to practice violin before school.
- Five Guys was founded in 1986 and has literally no freezer in its equipment infrastructure; everything is fresh.
- Five Guys fries have only three ingredients: potatoes, peanut oil and a dash of salt, versus competitors' 16 to 19 ingredients.
- There are 15 free toppings, allowing a burger to be made roughly 250,000 different ways.
- Founder thesis: if you were making burgers for your mom you'd buy the highest quality ingredients and make everything fresh.
- Founder Jerry Morrell deliberately picked an obscure first location 'like a speakeasy' to prove the concept could work anywhere.
- When Barack Obama left the White House he reportedly went to pick up Five Guys, an example of organic word-of-mouth discovery.
- About 75 percent of Five Guys managers are promoted internally.
- Around 8,600 people put on a red shirt and go to work at Five Guys each day.
- Five Guys has a flagship on the Champs-Elysees between the Louis Vuitton headquarters and the Abercrombie & Fitch global store, plus one in the Dubai Mall.