Morgan Housel: Bestselling finance author of The Psychology of Money (nearly 10 million copies) and Same as Ever, who has written about money, finance and investing for 20 years. He was on to discuss his new book, The Art of Spending Money.
What this episode covers
Steven Bartlett and Morgan Housel dig into the psychology of spending, saving and happiness rather than tactics for getting rich. Housel reframes saving as 'buying independence,' debunks passive income, and argues wealth is what you have minus what you want. The conversation widens into contentment versus happiness, dopamine and the 'arrival fallacy,' and how comparison and social media distort our expectations. Recorded the day after Charlie Kirk's assassination, it also covers political division, dehumanization online, and inequality. It closes on regret, gratitude, expectations and Bartlett's own struggle between happiness and contentment.
The guest's own work
The Art of Spending Money: Simple Choices for a Richer Life
Morgan Housel
“You've written this book, The Art of Spending. So, it begs the question, why would someone like you who sells tens of millions of copies of their books”— Morgan Housel
The Psychology of Money
Morgan Housel
“I kind of learned that from reading your your book, The Psychology of Money, because I think like many people thought there was some trick or hack”— Steven Bartlett
Same as Ever: A Guide to What Never Changes
Morgan Housel
“you wrote the book Same as Ever, which shows a guide to what doesn't change through history and how things can often stay the same”— Steven Bartlett
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
30 Lessons for Living
Karl Pillemer
“There's a very good book written by a gerontologist named Carl Pillmer. He wrote a book called 30 lessons for living where he interviewed a bunch of elderly Americans”— Morgan Housel
10% Happier
Dan Harris
“there's an interesting book called 10% Happier and it's about meditation and the point the title came from”— Morgan Housel
Big reveals from this episode
- Housel declares passive income 'is not a thing' and not part of how you actually get wealthier.
- Says the only two ways to get wealthier are 'sacrifice more or want less', nothing else, no passive income.
- Claims the top 10 richest men in the world have a cumulative 13 divorces, arguing their whole lives aren't enviable.
- Bartlett recounts shoplifting and drinking 'powdered water' oats while becoming a millionaire at 24, asking a girl 'would you take the trade?'
- Bartlett describes an existential low waking up alone in his big Cape Town house, realizing an empty mansion is depressing.
- Recorded a day after Charlie Kirk's assassination; Housel reflects on social media celebrating the killing.
- Producer Jack, on camera, says he would 'absolutely not' want Bartlett's life.
- Jack tells Bartlett he thinks he is happy but not content.
Worth remembering
- If you win the lottery, the probability of your neighbor going bankrupt increases, a statistic on comparison-driven spending.
- Jimmy Carr line: in your 20s you worry what people think, in your 30s you stop caring, in your 40s you realize nobody was thinking about you.
- Wealth is what you have minus what you want, Housel's grandmother-in-law lived happily on $1,700/month for 30 years.
- Happiness is a roughly 30-second emotion like laughter; the durable goal people actually want is contentment.
- Dopamine is the chemical of 'wanting,' not pleasure, a rat with no dopamine receptors starved beside food.
- The 'Toyota → Porsche → back to Toyota' meme: the financially uneducated and the very wise both buy index funds and humble cars; people in the middle overreach.
- Bezos's 'regret minimization framework' inspired Amazon, aim to have as few regrets as possible on your deathbed.
- In Karl Pillemer's interviews with elderly Americans, not one said they wished they'd made more money; they wished they'd been kinder and spent more time with family.
- Mo Gawdat's definition: happiness is when your expectations of how life should go are met.
- A study found people at every wealth level want about 2-3x what they currently have to feel 'enough.'