Louise Perry, Erica Komisar & Deborah Frances-White: Louise Perry is a UK journalist and author critical of the sexual revolution; Erica Komisar is a psychoanalyst and parenting author ('Being There') advocating maternal feminism; Deborah Frances-White is host of The Guilty Feminist podcast and a progressive feminist author.
What this episode covers
Steven Bartlett moderates a three-way debate between a sexual-revolution skeptic, a self-described maternal feminist psychoanalyst, and a progressive feminist comedian-author. They clash over hookup culture and the pill, whether casual sex harms young people's mental health, and the value of monogamy versus freedom. A long central thread argues over daycare, maternal attachment, and whether feminism devalued motherhood. They also debate the 'manosphere,' the economic decline of men, falling birth rates, biological sex differences, and end on pornography and how to raise good men.
The guest's own work
Being There: Why Prioritizing Motherhood in the First Three Years Matters
Erica Komisar
“I'm an author. I write books about parenting. And the book I'm probably most well known for is my book, Being There.”— Erica Komisar
The Guilty Feminist
Deborah Frances-White
“I wrote a book called The Guilty Feminist. I've just written a book called six conversations we're scared to have”— Deborah Frances-White
Six Conversations We're Scared to Have
Deborah Frances-White
“I've just written a book called six conversations we're scared to have, which does also challenge some of the directions that we've gone”— Deborah Frances-White
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
The Care Dilemma
David Goodhart
“David Goodhart, who's a a friend and author, he wrote a book recently called The Care Dilemma. And he described this this uh historical event as a one-time boost to GDP.”— Louise Perry
The Two-Income Trap
Elizabeth Warren
“Elizabeth Warren of all people wrote a book called the two income trap... she argued that one of the really important things in boosting house prices”— Louise Perry
Feminism Against Progress
Mary Harrington
“a great friend of mine, Mary Harrington, who's also an author. She wrote this amazing book called Feminism Against Progress.”— Louise Perry
Mad Men
Matthew Weiner
“watch Madmen which is a you know it's a sort of researched idea of how things often were for women then and men”— Deborah Frances-White
Sex and the City
Darren Star
“That's the expression they use in Sex in the City, having sex like a man”— Louise Perry
Pop the Balloon
Arlette Amuli and Bolia Matundu
“I watching this dating show called Pop the Balloon which I love which has just gone to Netflix and it's so crazy”— Steven Bartlett
Big reveals from this episode
- Deborah reveals her family joined a religious cult when she was 14 and she didn't escape until her mid-20s, shaping her views on autonomy.
- Louise recounts co-founding the campaign group 'We Can't Consent To This' after women died during sex and partners avoided murder charges.
- Erica claims young men are now more emotionally vulnerable than young women in her practice.
- Erica calls daycare 'day orphanages' and says it does 'terrible damage' to children under three.
- Erica states 'daycare was the feminist agenda' tied to the second wave of feminism.
- Erica argues society is 'producing women and men who are [unable to deal with discomfort],' framing some choices as narcissistic.
- Erica calls for 50/50 gender quotas in college admissions to give boys an advantage.
- Louise says she would press a button to abolish pornography entirely, calling it the least feminist industry imaginable.
Worth remembering
- 82% of young women report feeling depressed or anxious after casual sexual encounters, per stats cited.
- UK approval of casual sex rose from about 10% in 1999 to 42% in 2008.
- On campuses with more women than men, hookup culture increases because scarce men 'set the terms.'
- Marriage age climbed from roughly 21 (women) and 23 (men) in the 1970s to about 30 for both today.
- By age 5, 25% of UK boys lag in language skills versus 14% of girls; male youth suicide rates are nearly 3.5x higher.
- Women aged 16-24 now earn nearly 10% more than male peers, reversing the gender pay gap in that age group.
- An analysis of 1.8M dating profiles found higher earners were 255% more likely to receive interest.
- Komisar cites a UK sleep study where mothers woke to a crying baby but fathers woke to rustling outside, attributing it to hormonal differences.
- Elizabeth Warren's 'The Two-Income Trap' argues two-income mortgages helped inflate house prices.
- Louise cites an OnlyFans model who reportedly had sex with 583 men in one day and was hospitalized.