Jordan B. Peterson: Canadian clinical psychologist, former University of Toronto professor and bestselling author of '12 Rules for Life' and 'We Who Wrestle with God'. One of the most prominent and polarizing public intellectuals in the world.
What this episode covers
Peterson and Bartlett explore why modern society has become lonely, fractionated and increasingly sexless. Peterson argues identity is a hierarchy of social roles, that meaning comes from voluntary self-sacrifice rather than hedonism, and that pornography and easy gratification are sabotaging men's drive and relationships. He gives blunt advice on marriage, fertility timing, and the discipline of telling the truth. The back half turns personal and philosophical: his decade of legal battles, three years of severe illness and pain, the deaths of his parents, and his developing answer to what 'God' actually means.
The guest's own work
We Who Wrestle with God
Jordan B. Peterson
“your book comes at a really interesting time in my life personally your book is called we who wrestle with God”— Steven Bartlett
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
The Idiot
Fyodor Dostoevsky
“do you ever read the idiot no yeah well I'm probably half idiot and half rol nikov”— Jordan Peterson
Dante's Inferno
Dante Alighieri
“Dante's Inferno is a characterization of Hell by Dante it's one of the most famous poems ever written”— Jordan Peterson
The Lord of the Rings
J.R.R. Tolkien
“the Lord of the Rings is not a scientific hypothesis but that doesn't mean it's not true”— Jordan Peterson
Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind
Yuval Noah Harari
“if you obviously read the book sapiens by novel Harari and his central point is that what bound us as humans”— Steven Bartlett
James Bond
Eon Productions
“when you watch people go to movies I mean James Bond right that's an unbearably entertaining life”— Jordan Peterson
Big reveals from this episode
- Peterson insists he would have suffered MORE, not less, had he stayed quiet in his clinical practice instead of speaking publicly.
- Claims a marriage that ends in divorce represents roughly 10,000 fights that were never had.
- Calls rising sexlessness 'a catastrophe' and blames an open mating market that hands women to manipulative 'dark triad' men.
- States he believes in no sex before marriage as an ideal.
- Says he wrote 'We Who Wrestle with God' precisely because this is the cultural moment of people returning to religion.
- Reveals three years where 'every minute of my life was worse than any minute I had ever had', walking 12 miles a day because he couldn't sit.
- Tells Bartlett he believes Jesus was God and that, properly understood, this is 'indisputable'.
- Bartlett admits he is personally 'wrestling with marriage not just God', tracing his commitment fears to seeing his father as 'in prison' in his relationship.
Worth remembering
- Self-consciousness clumps statistically with negative emotion, so the more you think about yourself the more miserable you tend to be.
- Solitary confinement works as punishment even on psychopaths, showing how deeply social humans are.
- Peterson estimates a person gets only about five real chances at a long-term partner in a lifetime.
- Half of Western women 30 and under have no child, and one in three couples at 30 already have trouble conceiving; fertility falls off a cliff at 35.
- Couples who live together before marriage are more likely to divorce, not less.
- Roughly a quarter of early internet traffic was pornography, which Peterson says was a huge driver of the net's growth.
- Around 30% of Japanese (and similarly Korean) men and women under 30 are virgins.
- Bartlett notes 'how do I quit' is among the top Google searches related to pornography.
- Peterson dismisses self-esteem as 'a pathological concept'; he argues for confidence built on real competence.
- Peterson's father suffered severe depression that ran in the family, straining their relationship until he left home; he says he has not a single negative memory of his mother across 62 years.