Mel Robbins: Bestselling author and motivational speaker behind The 5 Second Rule and The High 5 Habit, former criminal defense attorney and CNN legal commentator
What this episode covers
Mel Robbins opens up to Steven Bartlett about a childhood sexual abuse incident she suppressed until age 28, and how it set off decades of anxiety, dissociation, and chronic self-criticism. She walks through her layered healing journey: interrupting negative thought patterns, understanding anxiety as a nervous-system alarm, and finally repairing her nervous system through EMDR, therapy, and guided MDMA sessions. She explains the origin of the 5 Second Rule, born during an $800K debt crisis, and the High 5 Habit, a morning mirror ritual to combat self-hatred. The conversation also dismantles myths around positive mantras and manifestation, arguing the brain needs evidence and action rather than empty affirmations.
The guest's own work
The 5 Second Rule
Mel Robbins
“you released the book, I think, 2017, called The 5-Second Rule, and it's all about, you know, well, you tell me what it's about”— Steven Bartlett
The High 5 Habit
Mel Robbins
“your with your new book. The High Five Habit. It does. Yeah. So, I'd love to hear the story of of how this was born.”— guest
Also referenced (named, not recommended)
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
Stephen Covey
“relatives of uh what's-his-face who wrote the Seven Habits of Highly Effective Whatever, they're the ones collecting checks on that cuz that book is still hitting”— guest
Zoloft
Pfizer
“I was tired of taking Zoloft. And look, Zoloft saved my life. I mean, I was on that drug for two and a half decades”— guest
Tesla Cybertruck
Tesla
“next year, hopefully, I'll have my electric car, too, if Tesla hurry up with the Cybertruck”— Steven Bartlett
Audible
Amazon
“I have a tremendous partnership with Audible um where we create a lot of original content for them behind their paywall”— guest
Harry Potter
J.K. Rowling
“that brain that is wired for self-love and self-acceptance, flips into the sorting hat from Harry Potter”— guest
Big reveals from this episode
- Mel reveals being molested by another child on a ski trip in fourth grade, an event she completely suppressed.
- She did not remember the abuse until age 28, when a stranger's story at a seminar triggered the memory.
- At age 40 she and her husband were $800,000 in debt after a failed restaurant venture, having secured it with their kids' college fund and home.
- The 5 Second Rule was born watching a rocket launch on TV the night before a desperate morning in February 2008.
- She says 111 people have told her they stopped a suicide attempt by counting backwards 5-4-3-2-1.
- The High 5 Habit emerged in April 2020 when she spontaneously high-fived herself in the bathroom mirror.
- After being deliberately left off a New York Times list, she punched a wall, drank a gin martini, and lit a joint before processing the old trigger.
- She reveals she healed her nervous system through EMDR, therapy, and guided MDMA sessions.
Worth remembering
- A baby will fall down roughly 77 times an hour and just keep standing back up, illustrating innate resilience.
- Trauma is defined as a disruption in the nervous system, not just an experience reserved for war or violent crime.
- Harvard research ('reframing performance anxiety') found no physiological difference between being nervous and being excited.
- In studies, people taught to say 'I'm so excited' outperformed those with no tools in karaoke, negotiation, tests, and a track meet.
- Cortisol released during fight-or-flight impairs the brain's ability to focus, sabotaging preparation.
- Counting backwards 5-4-3-2-1 interrupts habit loops in the basal ganglia and activates the prefrontal cortex.
- 136,000 people from 91 countries completed the public High 5 Challenge, with none reporting it didn't work.
- 50% of men and women cannot or will not look at themselves in the mirror, an act Mel calls self-rejection.
- Pediatricians say the number one fear in kids is throwing up, ahead of fear of parents dying.
- Mel maps feelings to Maslow's needs: stuck signals a stopped need for growth, like hunger signals need for food.